About Clifford Starks

Clifford graduated from ASU in Kinesiology. He has been a transformational coach for over 17 years and also fought professionally for 8 years in the UFC. He enjoys helping others reach potential heights they did not think were possible.

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It’s what happens as you gain experience and, and, and, and you’re right, it’s out of love in the context that in Billy’s case or anybody else, I’m giving you information that I didn’t have as a 26 year old when I thought I knew everything and the world was going to bow at my feet and I was just going to go out and destroy it. And I knew this much about something this big, but you would know that because if you asked me a question, I would try to answer the entirety of the question and make it up or just agree with you. Like I knew even though I had no good God, I God damn idea what you were talking about. All right. Should I begin? We’ll be doing this. Let’s do it. Let’s do this. All right. We are ready to get started here. Very happy to have with us a guest tonight. Clifford Starks, uh, is his name and uh, Clifford graduated from Arizona State University and helped me out. How many Clifford, how do I say this? Kinesiology.

You said it perfect.

Kinesiology. Uh, he is a transformational, uh, coach. Both in mindset and transformational for over the last 17 years. He fought professionally. That’s very interesting. We want to talk to him about that for eight years in the MMA. Uh, I, he enjoys helping other people reach their potential, uh, and particularly ones that don’t think that it’s possible. So obviously Clifford and Billy and I have a lot in common. Uh, it looks like we share a lot of the same, uh, the ways of thinking in the mindset. So we want to bring him on and have a conversation with him about some of what he is into. So on that tell us, I mean, the first one, uh, the first question out of my mind, and, uh, we had a little pre meeting here a couple of weeks ago, so I know the answers, but the first question out of my mind, Clifford, is kind of the background with the fighting, but before we get to that, tell me about, uh, about your background and let our, uh, let our audience know who you are and, uh, and what you’re about.

No, I was like, jade, who had his own personal struggles. And, uh, I overcame the struggles that I, yeah, we’re potentially put in my place, two figure out myself. Really. You know, it’s, it’s about self development. It’s about understanding yourself and self awareness and two big how components of why became, why I became where, at least to my knowledge is at a very young age. You know, I had a guy called the sperm donor. He came into my life and he left and it was almost like it was the blink of an eye. I don’t know why he left. He didn’t have any, he didn’t really give any reasons behind it and he just, he was in my life and he was out of it. And as a kid you’d think it’s kind of your fault. You think you did something wrong and you don’t know what you did, but you try and figure it out. And then my mom actually got remarried to the man I called father to this day because he, he taught me what being a man was and he was the father that my other father could never be. And it’s not too to hate on the sperm donor, but it is to say that people have choices and they get to take action on the choices that they make. And so it makes me remind, it’s a consistent reminder to me that things we do to people, they remember it, you know?

And did you, uh, I mean I’m thinking about myself, you know, from probably 12 years old until I was in my twenties, uh, and we’ve talked about it a lot on my podcast, you know, because I come from such a simple background and, and, and I remember very, very viscerally, I’m 50 years old how angry I was all of the time at the world. And I didn’t really even need a reason. You know, I was poor and I was always fighting and I was always getting into trouble. Um, but I think I was just pissed off at the world normally. Um, I didn’t have, you know, the, the, the, the father, my dad was in the house and my mother was in the house. Tell me how that affected yet. Cause I, again, I’m, I’m reading into it from my perspective how I think it would have be an angry kid the way that I was. How, how’d you deal with that?

The crazy thing. I was never really, yeah. Angry person. Good. I always had love in my heart, you know? And that never went away. I was confused. MMM. I was saddened. I was very sad about the process because Aye, I was trying to pinpoint what it is I could have done to make the situation different.


And now looking back, I appreciate every situation that’s been given to me. But in the moment it’s kind of like it’s a problem and you’re trying to find a solution. And so in a weird kind of way, I have always kind of had that. It’s kind of, my mom said it was an adultness or a maturity to me. Um, why I was that way. I don’t know. I couldn’t, I couldn’t tell you why. I always,

what about a, about what age did you kind of, when did your stepfather come into the mix? When did you kind of realize that your dad, your real bad, that this had happened and, and, and, and you know that he had been the sperm donor like you talked about. At what age do you kind of, does that start to take

it was relatively quick. So he was, the sperm donor was out between four and five.


My, my dad ended up coming into the picture around six now I didn’t take him on as the father because I had my father, if that makes sense. So it was just like, I wouldn’t call him father. I wouldn’t. MMM. I wouldn’t give him that kind of respect as a dad. I gave him a respect as a person. I’ve always respected people, but he

wasn’t my dad to me and took about that. Took a couple of years between, I was between eight and nine when I started really seeing him for what he had done for me and, and always being there no matter what. Right. Really respect it now. Five and six years old. Seems like a, seems like pretty young. You remind me of a story. Is that a reactions? I get when I tell stories, when I was a kid, uh, at five years old, six years old, I was taken two buses across town, through the middle of downtown Portland to go to school. Uh, and, and people look at that and go, well, how the hell is that possible? You know, we look at how we treat six year olds today and I know you have a son, uh, and you just, I mean, we’re so protective of him. And I was like, look, this was 1975.

They just kicked you to the curb. You walked a quarter mile up to the bus. It took me two hours to get to school. You know, uh, I took two hours at home and then I took a quarter mile coming, uh, on the walk home. But it was normal. That’s just how it was for me. And so it, it doesn’t, um, I’m always amazed by how people look at me as a six year old going and doing that without, uh, because they just don’t have the, the, the way the world works today, it’s so hard to imagine that those kind of things can take place. So it’s hard to put yourself in that place. And that was my reaction if I may consense there. That was my reaction to you tell me five, six years old, that seems awfully early to to be able to grasp even where you come from relative to a sperm donor father.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, um, I’ve always had, I guess the best way to put it, a very philosophical mind. Wow. Even at my young age, young age, I would always think I would always ponder. I would always try to figure out, I would try something and fail at it. I’d be better off trying it and failing at it and not try and get it all right. Right. Very cool. So that’s a, that’s a, a neat bra and I love that approach. And I guess you must feel real fortunate that, that a father figure came into your life and turned out to be a very strong father for you. Uh, and that you, I mean, cause you realize how much benefit you got from that. Do you ever think about where you might have gone? Had that not happened? What, what do you think would have taken place?

What would you have done differently do you think? I really do and I feel unfortunate because it really sped up my learning process. And that’s probably one of the big reasons that I coached to this day. It’s just I know what a person feels like when they have light in their life and I know what a person feels like when they have darkness in their life. Like even with what you’re saying, you said at a young age you had a lot of anger and it might not been something to be angry about. And that’s the thing is what people try and do is cover it up. Like don’t be that way. And that just fuels it even more, you know? But if you just listened to a person and understand a person and let a person work through their own demons, the way they need to work through them and give them the strength to work through those demons, then that’s when you have a powerfully tailored individually.

But I don’t think we do that enough. But I think as a society we get better with each thought. Each generation gets a little bit better than the last. You just have to learn from one another. And this is things that to your dad taught you. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Okay. So, uh, now we’ll get to the MMA part cause I’m assuming you get to be that we kind of got your, you’re, you’re living in Arizona, I think, if I remember correctly. And you’re coming into high school, give us some background. Tell us about how you got into the fight game. I think it probably started as wrestling all assume. Yes. So I, I, um, ended up going into wrestling and I was actually a chunky kid, right. So I was chunky before I got into wrestling. How big a guy are you now? Just for perspective?

I’m about 200 pounds and I was probably around close to 280 pounds. Wow. Maybe a little bit. Yeah. Okay. And so I ended up losing well over 80 pounds and going through the process and learning how to take care of my body properly, learning how to exercise correctly, learning how to get the proper nutrition and putting things together. You lost, you lost 80 pounds in high school. Yeah. Wow. And where did you get all this training then? All this learning for that’s cause that’s, I mean to be a high school kid and be able to do that. Where’s that come from? I would read a lot of magazines. I read it to read magazines and I made a lot of mistakes too because I’d see some of the infomercials and they’d show it like the stick wait. And I’m like, oh just shake this thing and you’ll lose though.

I tried to find creative ways to do that and just be like, oh okay. And then they would have this six pack ab machine. Were you pushed into it and did the crunches? It activate traps 600% more. And I would, I would get a dictionary and pushing it into my stomach and I would try the whole nine. But I ended up figuring out it was through trial and error. It was just a lot of trial and error. I ended up figuring out the right way to do things and I also realized how very people can lie on the television. Advertising is a wonderful thing, isn’t it? Yeah. Well that comes back to one of the things that we talk about here all the time. If it seems easy or it’s free, right? It’s probably not the right way to go. What’s the key to knowing you’re being scammed? Because it’s easy, right? [inaudible]

we always talk about, you know, work two hours a week and you can make $10,000 a month in passive income and it’s all just bullshit. You know, he can’t do any of that. Um, so I, I agree with you wholeheartedly, but I’m, I’m sure I’m inside of that as a, as a young kid, as a teenager, you knew you needed to lose 80 pounds. It doesn’t sound like you were making any excuses about how fat you were or, um, your background or where you come from or any of that. It sounds like intestinally you had that fortitude to step forward and go learn on your own. Here’s why I say this because so often I hear things are possible because there’s always something that’s not possible because, and I always say, no, anything’s possible. You just got to want to go do it. Clearly you wanted to lose the weight, but I can hear it, the excuses in my head about why people with the exact same exact same, uh, situation don’t go forward and try to do it because, well, there was nobody there to help me write the, you know, I don’t have internet connections or I don’t have time working full time and going to school and don’t have time to read the book.

There’s always some excuse even at 14, 15 years old about why you can’t do something. You’re telling me particularly something as difficult as losing 80 pounds as a teenager. That’s impressive. Uh, for you, what would you tell people listening and for you, how did you, how did you do that on your own? How’d you come to that without any supervision or without eating any instruction?

You know, I’m kind of weird about this because I wouldn’t particularly called myself a religious person, but I do believe in energy. I do believe in universal energy and I think each individuals put here or their own special reasoning, like some people are just built and they’re gifted a certain way and will power has always kind of been one of my gifts. Like it’s just a place that I default to even when things get really, really hard and what I do my best to do is to teach other people how to do it. But it’s, it’s really natural things for me. Like calming yourself down, knowing that no one’s gonna do anything for you except for you. At the end of the day, it might’ve been from, uh, a sperm donor leaving at a young age. I don’t know. It might’ve been from that to just say like, look, this is the way the world works. Some people are going to be there and some people aren’t. Right. Figure it out. Yeah. And so I just kind of always done my best to figure things out. Was your mother a uh, uh, no. Kind of. I’m not going to help you up. You know, you take care of yourself to, you know, not a color maybe. Yeah. She was tough on me. She was tough on me in a loving way. Sure. Because he knew the world was a tough place. Like it’s not, and that’s important. If I can interrupt you there on

that point, the world is a tough place. You can be tough with your children and raise them tough, uh, but lovingly. And that it’s, I think that there is a disconnect as somebody who has three kids that are now all in there coming up on their twenties you can, and they’re all good kids. You can raise them tough if you, I never helped one of my kids up. Never. Right. I mean, if they broke their leg and it’s sitting there with a bone hanging out, you’re going to help them. But that’s not what kids do. Kids fall over all the time. Uh, if you run to help them up, they become reliant on that and that becomes an imprint on their lives, I think. And something as simple as just showing the kid that they can get up on their own. If they wrecked their bike and they got a little booboo, that’s all right.

The boob who’s not going to kill them. And what happens half the time when a kid’s got a booboo, you put a bandaid on it. He runs right back out there because you put a little piece of plastic with some tape on it. He thinks he’s better. She thinks she’s better and she runs out. We never released, uh, uh, ascribed to that for us. It was how bad are you hurt? You can get up and go forward and do your own thing. And that’s, you know, something very specific there in terms of just not helping our kids up. But I think it’s been beneficial for them all through their high school careers and into college. As you know, my kids never miss school. Uh, they’re rarely sick. I mean they have this mindset that they can almost do anything that they want based on tough being raised. Tough. But being raised in a loving household. Good.

My mom was very tough. Expected a lot from me, but I always knew she loved me. Like I always knew she would be there for me. Yeah. But it will have to be something that was too much pressure that I couldn’t take. Yeah. And that’s when the guy even got the process to see just how resilient the human body really is. Cause it’s, it’s pretty resilient, you know?

So how long did it take? How long did it take you to lose 80 pounds?

MMM. That to me, less than six months. The reason I say that is because I actually didn’t know it was coming off because I stopped looking in the mirror.


Isn’t that funny? Like, so what I did, what I did was I would always look in the mirror and I know our minds do mess with us. Our mind will mess with them. They’re good at that. Right as though you never lose it fast enough because your mind wants to maintain where it’s at. But when you figure out the pattern or the solutions that you need, then you just act on it, acting on it.

Yeah. I think that’s true when they talk about losing weight. MMM. If you don’t look at the scale every day, you may be set on Monday and you do it, you know, once every seven days. And so that you can see progress because if you do it everyday

and you lost half of a ounce that you think that you failed. But when you look at it across a a seven days or even a two week period where you lost two or three or four or five pounds, you have a much greater chance of being successful doing that, uh, as opposed to looking at it everyday. And I think that’s what you’re talking about where your brain messes with you. But talk to me about, uh, the, the wrestling and the MMA. Let’s, uh, let me hear that story. Tell us about that. So through high school I started wrestling. I played football. I was a track and field athlete as well and I ended up going to Asu as you said. And the reason I pick kinesiology was specifically because I was that kid who had to lose the weight and figure it out and figured out how to exercise properly and what what kinesiology does.

It goes into a little bit of psychology and bio mechanics. And so I thought it was the perfect major to be in and learning about how the mind works, learning about how the body works, putting that all together and wrestling at the same time. I’ll tell you one thing I definitely, definitely learned is so light has waves of difficulty and so if you’re in your little fish bowl, you think it’s just the little fish bowl and you can be the big fish in the little fish bowl and you just grow and then you get into a bigger place and then you end up going into an ocean and you realize you’re not always the biggest fish you just are. And you can either adapt and grow or die or get out in there like those are your options. Right, right. So, yeah, when I was at Asu I was getting my ass kicked and I was good.

So you were good, you were good in high school and then uh, you thought, okay, I’m just going to move up to the next and the next. We hear this all the time. You know when you’re talking about like the NFL or the NBA, the difference between the college guys and the pro guys is just not actually, I have a story about this, I’ll tell you really quick. Um, I used to referee a and I refereed a lot of high end basketball games are a bunch of real high skill basketball games used to do pro, some are pro am’s and things like that. Uh, and I was playing or I was refereeing the game here in Portland in a gym that was just packed. And as a side note, it happened to been one of the, one of the first games I did where I was in an absolutely packed GM.

I mean standing room only, no room under the boards, the whole nine yards and a two proteins. A team from Seattle and Seattle used to have the supersonics and Portland had the blazers and the two teams were playing each other and they had NBA guys on it in a hometown guy from, uh, from, uh, from Portland was the captain of the team to rel brand and he was an all star in the NBA. And so I’m doing this big game and I thought, okay, this is my really my first, I’ve done a lot of colleges and my first pro, so I wonder what the difference is. And I saw Tarell Brandon, he’s a point guard in the NBA. I saw him get his shot blocked going for a layup and the guy that blocked it blocked it real nice off the backboard. I remember this like it was yesterday, grabbed the ball, turned with both hands and through what the length of the court to somebody that had cut out right from the top for a fast break, that fast Toro brand and intercepted the ball.

Yeah. Yeah. So I said to myself, that’s another I, I’m not even sure I saw what I saw. That’s a whole nother level there. And everybody else was just kind of looking like they were in quicksand. I mean that guy got, not only did he have the speed, the athleticism, but the mindset to get that shot block. He didn’t stop and cry. He didn’t look for a call, he didn’t pout underneath the back board. He did the layup God to shot blocked, turned around and ran the other direction in time to intercept a full court pass. And I thought that’s, that’s, that’s one in a million. That’s another level. So I know exactly that you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re telling me that reminds me of that story. I’ve seen that inaction as well. I mean, you hear it all the time, but I’ve seen it in action.

It’s crazy. Yeah, it’s crazy when you’re in the middle of it too. Like I said, I was a state champion in wrestling, so I was the best in the state. And then to go from that to being, you are nobody in this room. Not only are you not the best in your state anymore, you are no one in this room. Right. And that’s where, I mean it’s competence voters though, because success does leave clues and the successful are the ones who just will not quit. So figure it out. They don’t know how they’re going to figure it out. They’re just going to figure it out some way. And that was, was that your mindset standing in that room? You’re mindset is, I’m going to get my ass kicked, but I have to go through that to get better. Is that how you were feeling about it?

Yeah. Yeah. So the first time it really triggered me was probably when I lost the weight. And so when I figured out, okay, these are the processes you have to go through, I implanted the processes in my head and that’s where, that’s where my confidence lies. I just remember other things that I’ve done and I play off right, because losing weight, that’s not easy. Sure. It’s not easy thing to do. You have to go through processes and your mind will tell you, oh, it’s okay, you can eat this. Oh it’s okay, you can do this. Oh it’s okay. Take a day off. And you just have to say, thank you, I appreciate it, but I’m going to do this. I’m going to keep moving. I’m going to keep doing the things that I need to do. Right. And so we’re good. Three months. Yeah. I was getting tossed around like a kid and then one day it just came together. Like that’s what’s funny about it too is when you get it, you just get it. It’s like a switch, but it’s all those other things you did before. Then that creates that switch or it creates that momentum to get you moving into like, wham, now I get it.

Right, right. And, and being willing to take the beating to get there. Absolutely. The losses and to get your ass handed to us. So many people are handed to you. So many people I think quit before they get there. The, that doing that is too difficult. Put it, you know, it’s both psychologically and physically. Uh, in this sense it’s too hard to do.

Well, let’s say you go through life. There you go through three stages where this isn’t worth it. This is at least worth it. And I’m not worth this much.

Yeah. Good. Right?


Yeah, I agree. Uh, so, all right. Hi Wrestling. How’d that go on in college?

We’re really well. Okay. So I ended up, I ended up doing a lot better than a lot of people actually thought I was going to do because I was really going to college or my kinesiology degree. I wasn’t going there to be a wrestler and I ended up training with, he was actually the UFC champion for a little bit. His name was Cain Velasquez. Sure.


Worked with him and he’s it. Wow. He’s an animal. Yeah. He can go forever. He doesn’t stop. And I actually was going to quit the wrestling team just because I needed to make money. I was, I was going there with no scholarship and so I ended up talking to my coach and I told him like, look, I got a, I got to quit the team. I just, I’m not making any money right now. And I got to start working again. And he said, but no one else will wrestle with Kane. I know, but I need to make money. He goes, I’ll take care of it. And he ended up giving me the scholarship to pay for my schooling.

Oh, right. And Cain was the

hard work can do for you.

Yeah, right. Well, I’m, that makes me think about, I was just having a conversation this morning actually on this exact subject where you made your own, uh, Opportunity I talk about all the time. You can’t wait for those opportunities to come to you, but you have to take advantage of them when they’re, when they’re there. And in this case, everything that you did before led up to that opportunity. It wasn’t given to you. And then you had to take advantage of the opportunities. And again, those opportunities, you got to go chase. They’re not going to just show up and walk right in front of you and then you gotta be ready to take advantage of it when it hits. What’s that? I’m sorry.

Right. Yeah. That’s a, that almost never happens. And even if, if you walk in front of an opportunity and it happens to be there, probably not in your mind, you’ll think, oh, I have an opportunity. This is awesome, but you haven’t build the willpower or the strength or the understanding behind the opportunity. Sometimes that’s not the best thing. Sometimes you do need those tough times. You need to go through the process so that you can appreciate the opportunity correctly too,

and then be ready to take advantage of it. Absolutely. I mean, when we talk about, when talk about success, which this is really what this podcast is all about, kind of my journey from where I had worldwide, where I started to where I am, and when we talk about success, the critical part there is being ready to take care of or being ready to take advantage of these opportunities when they present themselves. And it might not even be the opportunity that is a, that’s in your, um, your sphere of influence, kind of what you’re good at. Right? In this case, the opportunity presented itself for, for wrestling, but in my case, the opportunity to come in from the street, the way that I did the opportunities presented themselves as business. I had these opportunities at these jobs and then when the business opportunity came along, I was willing to take what to take the beating, just like you said, only in a different sense of not knowing what I was doing and having to humble myself in order to learn so that I could take advantage of the opportunity that was presented to me.

It wasn’t what I wanted to be doing. Right. I mean I certainly didn’t look to be doing this as a kid. I’m going to grow up and I’m going to be in transportation in real estate. That was what I didn’t even know what business was really. So it wasn’t anything that I looked up, looked forward to as a kid, but I was smart enough and had enough experience in life that when the opportunity presented itself, I took advantage of it. And I don’t think nearly enough people look for those opportunities because they’re blinded by what they want rather than taking advantage of the opportunity they get. In this case, it worked out for you cause it was an opportunity right in your sweet spot what you knew wrestling wise. But in the bigger picture, I think it’s important that we, that we con that we teach and we explain and we have people look for those opportunities as they present themselves.

And it might be in something you never, it might be in a florist shop and you don’t have a first idea about how flowers work. But you got to be able to look at that opportunity, gauge it, figure out whether or not that’s for you and then take advantage of it. And too many times I think we’re reluctant to do that. We’re scared to do it, but that, sorry, I got off on a little side note tangent there. But um, yeah, that’s a big deal for me is taken advantage of opportunities as they come. Uh, and and rarely does any of this have to do with your passions, you know? And so in this case, wrestling was your passion. The opportunity presented itself so many times. It’s not what you’re passionate about, but it’s a fantastic opportunity that’s sitting right there in front of you. Uh, you just don’t go for it. Yeah, I think sometimes. So we find, I would say the best reason to not do something with the definitions that we use or instance, like follow your passion. So to follow your passion means to follow all the things you enjoy. And that’s not necessarily what that means. There’s going to be things in life you just don’t enjoy some time. So I was asking it about getting the weight off. I wasn’t passionate about all the things I had to do to get the weight off. Sure. Right? People Kinda,

it gets convoluted

and they don’t like no, you define it. You define what you need to do and then you take the next necessary actions or the best necessary actions that you can do in the moment and learn along the way as you do it. But don’t think that once you like, I can just give you this solution and then you’ll just figure it out. All of a sudden now we’re even focusing on the subconscious mind, right? So now, or tailoring towards the subconscious mind and saying, it’s still just great reading material. You still have to take the actions. You still have to. Even if you reprogram everything, it will not matter because when it comes down to push comes to shove, now what are you going to do? Right. And yes, we always want to make, we want to set the bar a little bit higher and make each group a little bit better, but there are still people who when they get, when the pressure gets tough, it’s like, okay, I didn’t know it was going to be this hard. Like that’s the message I want to spread is no, it’s never as hard as you think it’s going to be. It’s never as hard as you, you’re thinking, oh no, it’s hard. It’s 10 times harder than that.



And our brains, our brains mess with us because we are by nature a passive aggressive, particularly here in the United States, we’re very passive aggressive and by nature when you are passive aggressive, what that means is that you make up in your head the outcome of a certain situation before you have to deal with it. So I got to go talk to my, my, my coach about I got to quit the team and you may not go do that for weeks or four months to the point where it starts to affect your performance, your behavior. It starts to affect your mood all based on what you perceive to be the outcome to this very difficult conversation. That’s passive aggressiveness as opposed to jumping on the conversation, taking care of it, taking your licks, good or bad, and rarely, rarely, rarely is the outcome of that conversation.

In my many years of experience with thousands of people is that outcome of that conversation nearly as bad, not even close as what we build it up in our, in our minds. To your point, your conscious, your self consciousness or your subconscious will build that up in your head to such a degree that you just won’t do it. You don’t even know that you’re torturing yourself over something as simple as a conversation. That’s why we get so much relief when we go do it. And you feel like such a winner because you went and sat down and you had that very difficult conversation and then it turned out pretty good. And in fact you might have gotten something out of it and you’re like, Oh hell, that was pretty good man. I handled that real well. Forgetting that it’s been on the plate for two months, forgetting that, you know, you didn’t eat a few nights because you were so nervous about it, forgetting that it needed to be taken care of six weeks earlier. And it was it. And I think that that is that that perception

of how difficult things are, particularly in a passive aggressive environment is counterproductive to any kinds of success. School, work, life, sports, business, whatever it is, it’s absolutely counterproductive to that. And I think we see that also when it, what they’re, what people are told generally is not vow is not beneficial to them. Meaning, uh, I always talk about you want somebody to go on a diet, you want somebody to get in shape. Of course diets, you know, 75% of getting into shape is what you eat. But then you go show him, you know the guy that says, I prepare my food, it takes me three hours on Sunday night and I’m plugging it into the Tupperware and they show the counter that just covered with all the food and I’m like, God damn. And nobody’s going to do that, right? Who? I mean they might do it once, they might do it twice, but you got to give them something that they can do, something they can, they can actually achieve.

If you’re going to jump into the deep end and learn to swim, you’re in trouble. But you can go walk down the stairs into the three foot, get used to the water and you’re probably going to be all right as you move deeper. And I think the expectation that we set for ourselves is so high that it scares us. And, and partially that’s the people that are telling us what to do are to blame for them. That’s their path and making all those meals, you know, those prep meals 20 miles a week and all the rest of that on a Sunday night is for them. But talk to me about what I, a normal person with tree kids that works 10 12 hours a day that’s got a busy life, what can I do say to get into shape in a way that I can succeed at, not copy what you do but a way that I can succeed at.

So I think also you need to have perspective there on what, what generally your capable of doing. If you set that so high that I’m going to go climb Mount Everest, the first mountain you climb you’re going to fail. Right? So bring it down and just go climb the hill behind your house, start there and then work up from there. Yeah, I mean I get to see, and it’s sometimes the coach, sometimes it’s the client, you know, sometimes the coach will, we’ll set these expectations that are too, too high. And then sometimes you’ll even have, I’ll get clients who will do their new year’s resolution and they’ll go balls to the wall and they’ll mess themselves up or like a good month and be like, then that’s when the excuses start coming in. Sure. You know what? I don’t have the time. Oh, you know what? It’s too far.

All you know what? The human spirit is unbelievably powerful. It’s a very, very powerful thing, but at the same time, that makes it very dangerous too. Right? And so when you get to see that, it’s like, all right, I can make your life the best life you’ve ever lived. My whole thing is like, I want you to have a story worth telling. That’s what life is about, right? We want to leave a legacy and sometimes even at young ages, and I’m not saying this is all kids, I’m not trying to put a blanketed statement on it even though I kind of am. But when you’re young you don’t understand like what your passion is, what you like. You just can’t. You’re right. I say all the time that when your Billy, he’s 26 years old. I’m like, you don’t know shit. Well, you know when you’re 26 years old, man, you don’t know anything.

I mean, you have so much to learn, so that’s all right. We can, we can talk a little bit of smack about the chair. Hard for us. It’s all out of love too. Yeah. If I have a person who’s just like, oh, I need this new truck, I need this new shiny thing, like, okay, well that’s part of your story. That’s the part you’re on right now. I’m not going to tell, you know not to do that, but when you’re ready for this, then we’ll talk. When you’re ready to create legacy, then we’ll talk because that’s what this whole thing’s about. And people sometimes don’t get that until later on and say, wow, this is what I really want to do. They think priorities just start changing. That’s all it is. And that’s what happens as you gain experience and, and you’re right, it’s out of love in the context that in Billy’s case or anybody else, I’m giving you information that I didn’t have as a 26 year old when I thought I knew everything and the world was going to bow at my feet and I was just going to go out and destroy it.

And I knew this much about something this big. But you would know that because if you asked me a question, I would try to answer the entirety of the question and make it up or just agree with you. Like I knew even though I had no good God, I Goddamn idea what you were talking about. So when I do it, I’m doing it out of my epiphany came at 28 years old but until I was 28 I was in core legible. I don’t know how anybody dealt with me. I don’t, I’m okay. I say all the time. I’m lucky to have made it into my twenties but good God. I don’t know how I survived my twenties either because I was the biggest, a whole cause. I thought I knew everything and so when I say it, it’s from going from there to where I am today comes from the fact that I had an epiphany when I was 28 years old that said that where I told myself, you better shut up and listen because if you don’t shut up and listen.

I would had something put in front of me that I didn’t understand what I was looking at. But to your point, enough maturity had come along. My son had just been, my first son had just been born and here I was 28 years old. I was ready to shut up and listen. Um, and so if I can teach anybody to learn to shut up and listen younger at 26 or 24 or 22 or 20 or 15 then you are that much better off. And it may not take at 16 years old when you hear me say that, but it’s certainly going to take maybe a decade later after it’s sat in there and it’s kind of a, it’s kind of that seed was planted when you were younger and then by the time you’re 28 you’re ready to hear it. Or you’re ready to hold yourself accountable in a way that you would and when you’re 25 or 26 so in that context to anybody listening, we’ve got a lot of listeners that are younger guys.

We mean it as a tool that we’re trying to give you. Certainly I am that I never had at the same age. So we joke about given millennials a bad time, and you kind of did at the start too, but it’s about empowering younger people to understand that the not knowing anything is an asset. It’s not, it’s not a negative. Knowing being aware, excuse me, I should say, of not know that you don’t know anything is valuable there that that’s a huge tool. Working towards success to know that you’re 25 26 years old. They used to say to me, you don’t know. I used to get told by the older, older guys, you don’t know anything until you’re 40 years old. And I was like, man, I was, I was. I’m a kid from the streets. I was making $50,000 a year. I was 26 27 years old, managing people twice my age.

I had hundred and 50 employees in this company that I had helped build that was owned by somebody else. I mean, I knew everything there was to know. And the guy’s like, no, you don’t know anything about 40 28 years old. I had this epiphany, shut up and listen. And the next epiphany I had right after having that thought was, man, I don’t know shit and other and absolutely the, the, the thing you can mark down, it’s 100% true until you really reached around the age of 40. You just don’t know, have enough life experiences in aggregate in order to really judge and decide what you want to do clearly because you need all of that life experience to, to help you, you know, build the database so that you can grab all of those different experiences when it comes time to make decisions or when it comes time to, like you said, to stick to something or be a little bit more hardcore than you normally would or make the right decision for your life, your kids, uh, your relationship, your job, whatever it is.

I’m a big believer in hammering the fact that you don’t know shit and you need to really be aware that you don’t know anything. So that you can move forward because it’s hard to do when you think you have all the answers. What the hell are you going to learn? Yup. Yup. There is a book that I read, it’s called a whack on the side of the head and it’s thinking and our thinking, that’s going to be the name of my biography, the whack on the side of the head. I like that. Yeah. And so it talks about like, so it gives an example of a piece of clay and saw thinking it’s malleable, you can move it and so you can move it into a bowl and then that heart thinking it becomes a goal, right? Yeah. Right. Oh, it’s explaining that you need both at different times.

It’s not to say like, Yup, I’m 40 now, so you have to listen to me. Right. There’s times where I can learn from a two year old. Sure. I can learn from my kid all the time. You know, I learned some of, he has this energy and belief in himself to the point it’s, it’s absolutely insane and sometimes we get it beaten out of us. We do. And Luckily I had parents who wouldn’t allow that to happen to me. You know, like I, they say always listen, but question always listen, we’re question and it’s like you’re living in your reality. You’re living in your perspective. And one person’s perspective might be perfect for you, but another person’s perspective might be perfect for them but be terrible for you. Right, right. Good. So your eye, that’s all fantastic. I think we’re definitely, uh, of likeminded on, on that subject.

And, and just to finish that thought and then I want to ask you about your, your career in the MMA. Just to finish that thought though, the, the, the flip side to that is it’s been my experience, uh, uh, over 10,000 employees that as you get on the other side of 40, where you can then put lessons that you’ve learned to work, you’re much less reluctant to learn those lessons because your body, your brain is hardened, right? It’s like those neural pathways have become so fixed. It’s like a freeway. You know, once you build it, it’s there for 50, 60, 80 years before they ever get around to doing it again. And taking it down is very difficult to do. So I think when you’re younger, being open to those changes and realizing that you don’t know anything is much easier to learn than having to learn that stuff when you’re 45 years old.

So I agree with you wholeheartedly. And, and I mean I learned from Billy every single day, but it’s the mindset from when I was 28 saying, shut up and listen that how Lipson lets me sit here today and talk to a 26 year old and go shut up and listen because I don’t know what I’m talking about when it comes to half of this stuff that, you know, I mean like what we’re doing here and all the technology stuff and the stuff that he’s good at. Um, I don’t know, but I could hear a 28 year old Jerry saying yes and not having a good goddamn idea what he’s talking about. So tell us about, you go into, you go into MMA, uh, at a college, you get out of college, you go into that, give us a quick couple of minutes on a, on how that went for you.

Your career was, how long it lasted, what you do. So I was in it for eight years and I ended up making it to the UFC really, really fast. Almost too fast or my own good because I, I spoke with my coach and I told him I wanted to be there in a year and kind of laughed at me. He goes, no one makes it in that kind of time. And I ended up making it, you know, I ended up getting in and it’s, life is about the inches, the smallest small inches. The discipline to maintain and the ability to have like proper willpower, create the right habits. I’m really grateful for what fighting has taught, you know, as an individual because it really, it toughened you and it tailors you and it moves you. Like I take, I take those lessons and I apply across every area of my life.

You know, like, I know I can always be a better father. I know I can always be a better husband. I know how it can always be a better family member and a better friend. And it’s not to say that I wasn’t already already good because I do my best to be good. But greatness is about constantly getting better, constantly getting just a little bit better each time. I take that from, uh, from Joe Rogan’s podcast. I hear them say that all the time, that no matter how good you are at, at, at Jujitsu, you’ve been, you’ve been, uh, out of what’s the term, you know, you’ve been where you’ve got to tap the map three times. You know, I’m done. You’ve been tapped out. You know, how many times in practice, I mean, there’s no perfect fighting. There’s no perfect do Jujitsu. Even the greatest ones get tapped out, choked out, whatever it is.

Uh, you know, uh, many, many times before they’ve even begin to get, uh, to get where they are. And you’ve got to get choked out a hundred times, right? So that when you get in that, in that octagon, in front of that crowd, you’re doing what you’re supposed to do. You’re doing what you need to do. Yep. Yeah. And that’s where it’s like it’s funny punching people in the face, but my whole thing is about just bringing light to the world, you know, give the, give the world the best Clifford Starks. But I can always write. Did you uh, did you find the same uh, the same skill level at that next level that you experienced when you went from high school into college when you went into the MMA from college? Yeah, cause you don’t know how to box. You don’t know Jujitsu. Like it was more of the same.

And I think as you, as you go through the process, you just get it a lot faster. Everything starts coming together faster because you know what the processes, yeah. A coach is a coach. Think about it. Like if you didn’t know it was going to be that hard, if you didn’t know what the time it was going to take, if you didn’t know all of those things. How frustrating is that? That’s hard for any human to not to not do like I’m doing everything. I’m messing up. I can’t. It’s just, it’s frantic, so all the coach does it say this is part of the process. Don’t worry, just sit back and listen. This is part of the process. I’m so sore. This is part of the process on this is part of the process and it just, it kind of relieves and calms people down and moves them into the place that they need to get into just a lot faster than they would doing it on their own. That’s all it is. That’s all a coach does is they supercharge the abilities that are in you. They bring it out of you. Right. That’s all it is. How many, how many fights? Over eight years, so I ended up fighting 21 times. Okay. Is that a lot for eight years? What’s that? About three times a year. A little under it

three times a year. Yeah. Yeah. And that’s, that was kind of the normal track. Yeah.

So you get to, you go through that, sounds like he had a successful career for the most part. You, you had a winning record. If what I saw, uh, if I remembering that correctly. So you get out of that and kind of you’re a father now I think your son’s a couple of years old if I remember.

Yeah. Almost three now.

Three. And uh, and so you are, uh, uh, life coach, transformational coach. Uh, do you, does any part of the kinesiology I liked that. I got that word right. Uh, Dee, are you doing anything health wise or are you just helping people kind of with life and business and understanding what’s going on with the, you know, the mindset?

I focus on mindset, but they really do go hand in hand. Yeah, they do. They really do. They go hand in hand. So it depends on what that person’s looking for. It depends on what’s on their priority sheet. Now, if, if let’s say business, it’s all about just getting my business ready. Then I have to focus on that part of the priority sheet. But with that being said, when you get the systems in play correctly, everything in your life gets better because it’s like how can you truly focus on your business without proper sleep? Yeah. How can you truly focus on your business without eating the right foods? You know, the difference between when you had a good meal and a crappy mill and uh, again, to your point when you say like, yeah, over the weekend I packed like 30 things for the whole week. Like, no, you don’t have to do that. Well, you know the difference between eating a large piece of cake or a piece of pizza and eating a healthy salad or even something that you can find healthy alternatives that tastes just as good

and the, and the mental game that the mental game that goes with that. I work out every morning and on the mornings it’s easier for me to eat correctly when I work out. Then when I don’t work out, because I think, okay, if I eat that piece of cake, the two hours that I worked at the gym, I lost that Hoe, that, that nightmare that I put myself through or the tough time that I had at the gym. I hate going to the gym, but I go every morning. It’s, it’s counter,


intuitive. But I eat better when I work out then when I don’t work out. So if I don’t work out, you’d think don’t eat the piece of cake. But in my head, the math doesn’t make sense. I can eat the piece of cake because it doesn’t cost me anything. And that’s an awareness that I had to have with how my brain, uh, how the brain messes with me and changes kind of the perspective. It’s, it’s, it, it, it’s upside down. Nothing to lose. Yeah. There’s nothing to lose. That’s, yeah, that’s exactly right.

When the body feels good, it does things that feel good, right within the body, feeling better. It wants to do the right things. Hmm. And it’s funny. So I’ll tell you perfect. Like when we go through so and angry Jerry versus a happy Jarrod. Right. So happy Jerry’s probably going to make the better decisions than the angry Jerry, the angry Jerry and the angry Clifford versus the happy clip for this. The same thing. Right? Right. They happy, clever. Just probably going to make the better decisions. Okay. But if you’re going around in a happy mood consistently, then that’s going to be your default even when tough times come. Sure. And that, that’s what I tell people as a coach is it just like, look, tough times are going to come. You’re going to get in a fight with somebody. Someone’s going to make you angry.

Someone’s going to say something and you might take it the wrong way. Or they might just mean it intentionally trying to make you start something. They want you to feel upset. But if you practice certain habits, you always go into default into doing the right thing. This is the same thing I’m going to be teaching. My son is look, learn, grow, develop, get better. And even if you do mess up, if you blow up and you get angry, it happens. We’re human. But we can learn from it. We can look back at it and say, how do I make that situation better next time?


Instead of I shouldn’t have done that. No, it happened. So how does that,

when you’re, when you’re working with people, I’m guessing some people take to that very well. Some people don’t take to that so, well, talk to me about, I mean, when it’s easy, it’s easy. Uh, when it’s hard, that’s where really where you earn your money. Talk to me about, you’ve had maybe a tough client or somebody that just really put up the fight. How do you get somebody that’s difficult and doesn’t want to do it? What’s the trick to getting people, what should people look for, I guess, in themselves based on your experience with difficult people?

I say it all starts with loving that individual and, and the loving things that you do. Like Jerry, me and you talking right now, it’s going to determine what you’re willing to do for me off of the things that I’ve done for you. And people can say like, oh no, you just love just to love. And it’s like that is a part of it. I do agree with that. But at the same time we are human beings and so as human beings we are naturally emotional. We are emotionally charged. And so our best lessons have come from either trying to prove someone wrong or trying to do right by the people who care about us.

And so is that the, is that the message that you’re trying to instill? Um, I’m trying to, uh, trying to see if there is your, what your answer is or your take is from your perspective on somebody that’s really difficult or is coming to you because they have some sense of what they need to do, but they just don’t know how to do it, but they still have every answer. Right. That difficult client? What do you do a or what’s a tr in through you telling us what you would do? What’s the trick then that the listeners can do if they kind of are feeling like they’re in the same place, you know that, that it just can’t happen. This isn’t me. This is for everybody else. Clifford’s full of Shit. This is all new agey crap, you know, all of that sort of thing. How do you break through that?

It all starts with understanding what your patterns are, right? So if a person has patterns and habits to do certain things in certain times or fell at certain times, then they have to understand that, realize it and take responsibility and to take responsibility. Does it mean to will themselves out of it? Because people have tried to will themselves out of things and they maintain doing the same thing. Sure. But taking responsibility means, all right, I don’t want this anymore. I need to change some things in my life to make my life different. Whether it be the people I hang around, whether it be the sources that I’m talking to, whether it be the way I’m thinking of this situation so people really can figure out to make this better,

people really have to, there’s no way to make people, which this is makes sense. There’s no way to make people do things they don’t want to do. They have to be willing to, yeah. I mean they have to come to you and go, something’s wrong. I need to change. Uh, I, there’s, there’s things I need to work on. I’m not sure what they are, but what I’m doing is not working. And I think a lot of people know instinctively when something’s working or it’s not, but really that’s the, that’s the critical part is people just have to be willing to, and then if they’re willing to, they can be shown the path.



Yeah. When they were ready to go. And that’s why I, I come from a place of love. Do you know Dan Pena?

Yeah. Yeah. I don’t know. I know, right. I’ve never had sale.

I liked the guy, you know, I like what he stands for. He’s intense. He’s completely different than me. Yeah. Completely different than me. He’s like love and blah blah blah blah blah. I want them to respect me. Okay.


Mine is about, I’m gonna love you and these are the patterns that you have to go through. These are the ways that you and different things work for different people. Yeah. Okay. I’m okay with being me and I do respect that opinion or the way that he does things. Right. Cause I know there’s someone out there who would vibe with him better than with me.

Yeah. See My background is I would, I always say I wish I had somebody like that. I wish the Internet existed when I was 16 or 18 or 20 years old because I think Dan Pena would have resonated with me a whole lot more than, than what your message would be. Cause I would take that hardcore message and go, okay that makes sense based on my experiences and where I came from. But again, we’re not, I say all of the time that don’t do necessarily things the way that I do them. But understand that you want to end up, if you want to be, you know, if you want a certain level of success, say, or you want to run a business or you want to, whatever it is that I can teach you that I’ve had success at, if you want to end up where I did understand what I went through to get there, when you’re not going to go and start doing the same things I do and just completely replicated, but you can see the end results.

But you need to get there. You need to have the results and figure out how to get there your own way. And if that means that you need to change your behavior, not to mimic mine, but to, to be able to take advantage of it, the of, of, uh, situations the way that I did, while then you need to be aware of that. And that’s your role, that’s your path to success. Not going, well, Jerry acts like this. Or he says these things. So I’m going to do exactly these things. No, do it your own way, but you need the same results.

Well I think you need to learn from the mindset as well. You need to learn from the mindset and the approach to how somebody got to where they were learning from the approach rather than necessarily the specific stats.

Yeah, that’s a good point. That’s exactly right. Yeah. So instead of concentrating on the specific steps, understand what’s behind it.

Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Good. So approaches work for different people

and that’s for sure. Without a doubt. So you’re working as a a life coach now. Is that, is that what you’re or, or, or you’ve been doing that for 17 years I think.

Yes. Yes. Focus on life coaching mindset and just really getting people out of their own way. Creating the necessary habits. Cause the thing is people know what they need to do. That’s the funny part of it. Like they have an idea of what they need to do and they say if everybody, if knowledge was enough, everyone would be, have six packs and being millionaires. Yeah.


It was just like, well do you follow these three steps, all of these six steps and you’ll be there. Right? Well how are you going to, how are you going to do the things that you need to do? Like I give, uh, a perfect example. Someone like you, Jerry, I would probably train you different then maybe a different person that I’ve worked with because you need that hardcore. You can do the, come on, what are you doing? Fuck it up. And some people need that. Hey, you know, like when I say I love you, it’s not like, all right, let me give you a hug. Are you feeling better?


But it is, I’m going to listen to you.

It’s how the message is, how the message is delivered.

Yes. Yeah, I understand you. I get you Roger that

I understand. Aye Cause

you need to talk to you need your love by itself. Won’t get it. John Dunn, just as Dan Pena said and he says, perfect, I’ve got the job done. Love doesn’t get it done. Well it just makes it an easier process.

But to your point, I, I’m going through my shoulders all jacked up and I’ve had a ton of back surgeries. So I’ve been going through some physical therapy as I get older, just kind of loosen it up and keep moving

and uh, I’ve had to learn over the last month or so as I’m having conversations with the physical therapists. These guys are looking at it completely different than I am. So you tell me to do something, I’m going to do it as hard and as fast and as tough and as strong and I’m going to put all this effort into it and they’re like, okay, that’s good. That’s gotten you where you are. But Dude, you need to chill. You need to back up a little bit. And instead of going as hard as you can, just kind of ease it and then we’ll go this way and see just a little bit. And, and, and it’s a whole different mindset for me instead of mind over matter, mind over body, it’s mind over mind. It’s, it’s redoing the way that I approach what I have done historically, but understanding that, okay, I’m not comfortable with this.

I don’t understand this, but this makes sense. So I’m not going to discount it because I don’t understand it, which is what so many of us do. I’m going to go for it 100% I’m going to listen to this touchy feely bullshit that I don’t really, you know, makes me very uncomfortable. But there’s, but, but it makes sense. I can’t argue with it. So it’s valid and I’m gonna use it and I know other people use it and I know it’s successful, so I’m going to go forward with it so I know exactly what you’re talking about because I’m experienced in that exact thing. I’m in my own life trying to deal with this jacked up shoulder. I have. Absolutely. Yeah. How long have you been married? I’ve been married for 22 years this August, so 22 years. And, and I think one of the coolest things is like we look at, we really learn our patterns when we’re married to some way.

Sure. Yeah. You’re married, you’re marrying someone who has their own patterns to figuring out like how to work within this new thing, and even with the children that you have, that just amplifies it even more because your kids are going to develop their own patterns too. Sure. Right. It’s kind of like, all right, well this is this. It’s this complicated organism, but it’s beautiful. That’s what it really comes down to is just like, it’s not necessarily always going to be the easiest thing. Like your kids are gonna drive you crazy sometimes. Sure. That’s right. Yeah. Your wife will drive you crazy sometimes. Right. But it, it creates this, this process that you wouldn’t give up for the world and no one could understand that until they’ve been in it. But that’s the beauty of it, right? You never understand what you’re capable of either. Until you have things that mean something to you.

Like these do, like if you’re, if you’re way overweight and your heart’s no good, but you have kids, you, those kids are a source of, of inspiration for you. I always say, some people will tell me, oh, there’s no way I could work like you do. I just can’t put in those kinds of hours. And I say, yeah, you could. If I put a gun to your mother’s head and unless you got straight A’s in high school, I’m going to pull the trigger. What would you go do? Well, everyone answers. Obviously I could get straight A’s in that context. I was like, wait a minute. If you could get straight A’s in that context, why can’t you get straight

A’s all of the time? It’s because you just don’t have that, that thing that’s inspiring you or pushing you or that mindset that you need. So I couldn’t, I couldn’t agree more with that. This has been an hour, man. That’s it. We want an hour. That was about the fastest hour. Uh, every time we do these, these hours fly by, man. I really enjoyed that conversation.

Yeah, it was a pleasure speaking with you.

Tell us how people get ahold of you.

So you can email me on you can also go to my Facebook messenger or my Instagram, which is Clifford Starks away.

And Clifford is Cli, f. F. O. R. D Starks. S. T. A. R. K. S. Yes sir. All right. It’s been a pleasure. I really enjoyed at Clifford. We’ll have you back. We’ll do this again. Maybe, uh, uh, let a year or so ago by we’ll catch up with you.

Okay. That’d be perfect. All right.

I enjoyed it. Thanks man.

Thank you. You have a good one.

You too. Bye. Bye. And that was Clifford Starks. MMM, I enjoyed that. That was fun. That was interesting. Yeah. Oh, what’d you think?

I think he has a good perspective. I think it added another layer to the city, kind of. I think a lot of times we hear some of the messages or things that he’s, he says, and we discarded as feel good bullshit. But I think there is a lot of underlying things too that once you kind of get into it, so you know how he said he teaches with love and light. And at first you kind of take that as well, what the fuck is this? But then when you get into it, you realize, you know, everybody has their own kind of love. You know, you need to hear that he’s listening to you and that, you know, he’s working with you in whatever way that’s possible.

Uh, and, and I, I agree with you 100%. It adds, there’s so much value in, like he said, the different approaches that we both have. I have my approach, he has his approach. And so bringing that on and having that on the podcast and talking about that cause you and I are kind of the like of the same mind and bring it in that other process and just saying, okay, here’s another way of looking at it. And then, uh, again, you know how I react to that. But realistically, as I talked about with my shoulder, that’s exactly what I’m going through. So the, the hard nose, pound it, get it done. However big the mountain is, I’m going to climb through it, not go over it, uh, is tempered by, here’s maybe another way you could walk around it and you can, you know, maybe it takes you a little bit longer, but there’s another option there that’s not necessarily always the one that, uh, that has gotten you where you are in my case. So yeah, I enjoyed that. Cool.

Really interesting guy. I mean, he’s had a lifetime for sure.

Without a doubt that, uh, uh, I love what he says though about a, you think you’re hot shit until you get out there, uh, at the next level and you figure out that you ain’t shit, and then you’ve got to climb back up that mountain again and get to the top of it, and then you start right back over again because there’s always somebody bigger, faster, smarter, stronger. Yup. There always is. That wraps up this episode. Thanks everybody for tuning in and checks out youtube, Instagram, Facebook, iTunes, Google. Read it and the old Spotify. Fuck you, Daniel. Gerry brazy on all of them. Send us your questions. Two questions at Jerry. Raise U. Dot com go check out. The new website is up and it looks good. Dan. Danny, what are the hell they come up with that Daniel Billy. I was just talking shit. It Daniel, uh, Billy did a nice job putting that thing together.

A watch for our blogs, which will be coming out. I think we have two, three part blogs. Uh, all you mother fuckers better go read it because I wrote him and it took time. Um, but it’s going to be, I don’t know. What are we going to do it every couple of days I think is what we’re going to do to try to do something like that. Uh, and so check that out. Remember people as we just talked about, as we always do, opportunities are everywhere, but you got to go get them. Uh, Clifford, I enjoy it. That was fun. Thanks. Peace out. Peace.

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