About John Taylor

John Taylor is a long time friend of Jerry’s with over 26 years as a real estate broker in the Portland metro area.

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00:00:00                               So somebody looking to either be a broker or, or, or, or get into real estate and they come to John who’s got 27 years of experience. What are you telling them? Don’t do it. Don’t do it. No. Yeah. Straight up. Are you listening?

00:00:21                               [inaudible] you ready? Yep, we’re good.

00:00:26                               Cool. Everything’s running. Yup. Let’s do this. We’ve got a guest today here on the old podcast, John Taylor’s friend of mine. John, how long have we known each other? Probably you and I have known each other 15 years. Probably 10 years. Yeah. So John and I met through, uh, through a mutual friend of ours and he, uh, is does real estate. So we’re going to walk through, uh, as you know, that is a always something that, that I like to talk about and something that I am very active in successfully and unsuccessfully as a, as John knows. Um, so we thought we’d have him come in and talk about, uh, life as a, uh, as an agent. I believe he has his own, uh, his own shop and how that works, how he got started, what his background is. And him and Billy have a relationship because he sold me my first house.

00:01:18                               Yeah, that’s right. I did well, I helped you buy your first house. Yup. Yeah. Turn me up just a little bit. What’d you believe? Uh, so with that said, John, uh, you know, the, the, as we talked about right before the podcast, the purpose of the podcast just kind of and instruct people and give people ideas of how do they get started in business and where do you come from. And I’m always saying that there’s no magic. Um, you know, there’s no magical, at least for me, there was nobody pushing me and nobody telling me to do it. To get started in this and to, uh, to want to do something, you know, beyond just kinda like the nine to five factory type job. Nothing the matter with that. But for me, so I always go back to the beginning, kind of where you started, talk to us about that.

00:02:01                               Then we’ll get into the real estate. Yeah, definitely. So I’ve, I’ve always been kind of a self starter and uh, um, but anyway, I grew up in, in Troutdale, um, Portland boy, Portland boy born and raised, grew up in Troutdale kind of over by the old dog tracks there. Yup. Behind that. And then, uh, ah, [inaudible] the university of Oregon, I’m a duck. And uh, and then when I graduated from university of Oregon, uh, kind of looked at some job options and in the corporate we’re all done. Just decided that wasn’t for me. So what’d you go to school for? I got my degree in political science and my minor was in. Okay. No. Yeah, I was just looking at different corporate jobs. So when you went to school, was that, did you want to do that or were you just kind of trying to figure out what you were going to do so you thought business was a good [inaudible] exactly.

00:02:54                               I was just trying to figure out what I was going to do. You know, [inaudible] took me a while and, right. Yeah. Good. I finally figured it out. I graduated in 1992 and I worked at the air force base mowing lawns and roads and grounds maintenance basically every summer. Well I was going to school, no, I didn’t have a job when I graduated. So they, they kept, they, they gave me my summer job again and they kept me on until about this man, about November of that year. And then finally they were like, you know, this is a temporary job and, and we can’t keep you on any any more. And I was like, well, I don’t want to mow lawns for the rest of my life. Anyways, that’s kind of, and so my mom has been in real estate for uh, since 1976. Okay. Does she was, she just said, why don’t you give real estate a try?

00:03:40                               And I’d always been somewhat interested in it. So I got licensed in December of 92 and I’ve been at it ever since. So when you got licensed, I went through this. I think it’s different now than how they licensed it. Billy and I were talking about this a while back. I thought about going into real estate. It just cause I didn’t know what the hell else to do when I was like 20 years old. And I remember going to the school, I think it was over here in Northeast Portland. Uh, and you said maybe it was Southeast step-off stark and you had to sit and listen to just hours and hours of tape. Is that correct? Cassette tapes. I, I went to a live, I had a live instructor. Oh okay. Which is very rare. I didn’t even know if they’d do now. They probably do somewhere, but it’s all online nowadays, I would assume.

00:04:22                               So I didn’t make it [inaudible] I did make, I think it was every day, five days for eight hours a day or something. So I mean it took a long time too, right? Yeah, it’s a lot of hours. And maybe it was more than that. I don’t remember. But I made it about three days cause they had me in a cubicle, you know, and you just sat there with headphones on where the cassette player. Yeah. And then you kind of followed along in the book [inaudible] for fuck sake. And then you took a test at the end and I didn’t make it. I made it three or four days. Sound like that. So that was my brief foray into thinking about going into real estate. Yeah. The live instructor was pretty boring to you. So nowadays, like continuing education, I do it all online and it’s usually kind of last minute, knock it out in a hell of a lot easier too.

00:05:07                               A lot easier than sitting through orientates are boring, right? Instructors, right, right. Yeah. Yeah. I got through it. [inaudible] luckily I passed the first time and a lot of people don’t, it’s not a, not a super easy test that the test doesn’t really prepare you to actually sell real estate. Right. So you had contacts with your mom or you had, your mom was in the business. Did that get [inaudible] [inaudible] if somebody, somebody’s speaking about getting into real estate, I always say, you know, there’s a lot of new agents that come out there and I believe I’m right that the statistic is that there’s one agent for every house that gets sold. Does that sound right in the United States? Probably about right. So think about that. Everybody that wants that sneak in about getting into real estate, I can’t think of something more cut throat than one sale to one person.

00:05:55                               Yeah. Most people don’t make, most agents don’t. And so anybody that wants to get into real estate, I, first thing I ask them is, do you have at least a year of savings or do you, you know, if you need the money to, you don’t have, if you have bills, you have a year’s worth of savings. If you don’t, then you’re probably going to fail because yeah, it takes three months to do your first deal and then you, you know, until you find that deal. Yeah. So you spend three months going out and finding your deal, and then you spend the next two months working on that deal, putting out the fires. Like I was telling you, I’ve been doing on several deals lately. And, and so you then, the next two months trying to get the deal closed and then at the very last minute, the deal falls apart.

00:06:36                               Now you’re five months in and you have no deal. Yeah. And, uh, no money. Right. And so then the process starts over. So then it takes you another three months to but a deal together are there two months to close it. So at the end of your first year, you’re closing your first deal. Right. And, uh, that usually is not enough to pay the bills. So yeah, I just tell people have at least a year, if not two years worth of savings and the people that can stick through it then, then they’re usually successful. [inaudible] and what’s the can be a tough go. What’s the personality type? What’s the, what’s the, the trick, the key trick? I mean you’ve been in it since [inaudible] mid nineties. Right? So that’s a long, 25, 20 plus years. What’s the, the one thing you look for if somebody’s, what’s the personality trait they need to have if they want it to be a broker?

00:07:24                               Tenacity. Okay. Yeah. This just got to stay after it yet to stay after it. I have to have thick skin and just be able to kind of deal with a lot of D you have to be able to deal with a lot of different personalities. Every seller and every buyer is different and it’s a very emotional transaction. Then you’ve got to deal with inspectors and lenders. Yeah, more inspectors now and yeah, appraisers and so it’s a, you have to be able to deal with a lot of different emotions and personality and be able to, and it just work your way through that. And then you’d have to meet challenging. You have to be able to go find contacts also. So I’m assuming that you get told no a lot. He, he get told no a lot. Absolutely. And that’s the, I’ve always said the, for me the hardest job in the world would be door to door selling.

00:08:09                               And I think if you could go door to door and sell anything, you could do almost any job. Yeah. In the corporate world, because I had 100% I don’t know if there’s a harder thing to do than sell something door to door. This can’t be too fast away from this way to prospect though. You can get somebody who’s has enough tenacity to go door to door, they’re going to be awesome. So I have a buddy of mine, uh, in, uh, Tennessee and was getting into real estate. And my advice to him was twofold fold. You tell me what you think about this. Uh, the number one, I told him door to door [inaudible] Nope. [inaudible] he said, well, we all have kind of neighborhoods. I said, I would, I would blanket cities all day long until I found something right. I would just time after time after time, but I’m an animal so I would just, it stop me.

00:08:55                               Right. A get thrown bit by a dog, get thrown off the porch. I mean, I’m sure you have to deal with all of that. Ah, that was one thing. And then I had another piece of advice that a real successful agent, uh, in Houston told me, which is the, when they got started, uh, they, what takes other agents, listings, open houses and do them for them and by upselling them for them. So the agent didn’t have to come in themselves all day Saturday, all day Sunday. They would get referrals from the people that came to the open house that didn’t like the house but were looking for houses. Exactly. Yeah. I did open houses every weekend. Yeah, every weekend when I first started. And for that reason, very few of them actually buy the house that [inaudible] that you’re holding open. But a lot of them are just starting and [inaudible] the goal was to turn them into a client.

00:09:46                               Right. So, so that’s how I got a lot of my clients first started. How else? A for sale by owners. A met that was door knocking, just like you’re talking about. But we had a, it was a little bit more of a warm market, eh, that meant we’d go, me and my mom would go knock on doors. A for sale by owners. So you’d see the sign out front or how would you know? It was for sale by owner. The Oregonian was an actual paper, you know, and so the, the real estate section and Sunday was loaded with real estate ads. Yeah. Now, I don’t even know if there is a section anymore. I haven’t looked at an actual paper in years, but back when I started as a huge section and you could just get tons of for sale by owner ads in there and would just go down the ads and start either calling them or just go knock on their door.

00:10:32                               A lot of them were open on, you know, having their own open houses. So good pop in and you know, most of them if you’d build a little rapport with them and, and most of them would end up listing was somebody at some point if they weren’t successful on their own. So what’s the, the value then back in the mid nineties, I mean today we all know how technology is. What was the value that you brought, um, to somebody trying to sell a for sale by owner w w what would be the differentiator that would bring you in as opposed to them just selling it themselves? Well, most of it’s the networking and the power of the multiple listings. So, yeah, they only have there want to add, especially back then there I have as many avenues that they do nowadays to advertise so they could advertise in the Oregonian and maybe a few other places, you know, that Gresham outlook or something like that for us.

00:11:20                               But that, uh, you know, there’s 10,000 real estate agents and they all have their own handful of buyers. So just by listing it in the, in the multiple listing increases your, you’re a [inaudible] immediately [inaudible] through that. So most, most homes are sold through networking with other real estate agents. Just how I yeah, yeah. Sold Billy his house, right? The uh, yeah. And I don’t know how many deals [inaudible] that we’ve done that have come, just how, I mean, we met each other 15 years ago, now we’ve done, I don’t know how many deals [inaudible] a bunch of transactions and sometimes that I was representing you as a buyer, sometimes you as the seller, right. [inaudible] people that work for me or people I knew or whatever it is. Right. So really that that um, that time you spent with your mom, you, she, I’ve had so much experience that you got hands on training while you were, I got thrown right into the fire.

00:12:19                               So I’m pretty, yeah, shy by nature, especially back then right out of college I was just a shy, I didn’t feel trapped knocking on doors where that wasn’t, that wasn’t my nature to knock on doors. My moms the much more outgoing and that’s what she loved doing it. [inaudible] I was scared to death and still hurt. Well, just come with me. This was my very first appointment and so I followed her, we pull up and she goes, Oh my God, I have to go because I have to go deal with this offer that just came in. But you know, here just go up to their door. And I was pretty much shitty myself at that point. So hang on. What do you mean go up to their door? What do I say? Right. She’s like, just go out there. You’ll figure it all out. Shot. I had no clue what I was doing. And this was a for sale by owner. This is the first sale by owner. I think she had called them beforehand and told them we were coming. But uh, she took off and your SES shadow just passed your test? Yeah. I have no idea what I’m doing. And uh, as I go up there and the guy slammed the door on my face, like you don’t get, get the F out of here.

00:13:22                               And uh, yeah, yeah. That was the first one. Might as well get the rejection out of the way right out of the gate, I guess. So let’s talk about that for a minute because I think that there’s a lesson to be learned there when it comes to being able to do something successfully. That is that you can make a living at it. There is a preconception, I think that people have, that you have, let’s take you as an example, have some sort of ability that they don’t. Right. And what I heard you say is that you were shy, uh, and it was very hard for you to go knock on doors, which I hear throughout business. The hardest part about it is selling. And I don’t like to go knock on doors. Right. I don’t like to, you know, have those cold meetings in front of people and it makes me uncomfortable.

00:14:03                               You’re here telling me after being in real estate for 25 years, you were uncomfortable. That sucked. You didn’t know what to say. You didn’t know what to do. Yeah, exactly. How’d you learn? It? Just, I kept doing it. I don’t like to lose, so I just a be down. It’s that tenacity. So I’m like, okay, and we’ll, we’ll just [inaudible] he’ll do another one and see what happens. Did you have to talk yourself into it? Into, yeah. Yeah. A lot of self talk. Like just getting myself pumped up beforehand. Just like any kind of a sports event or something, you know? Right. Yeah. [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] is been my experience, and I always talk about this on the podcast [inaudible] we are passive aggressive by nature. Human beings has been my experience. And that passive aggressiveness, I will in your head for something you’re uncomfortable doing. Make it always seem way worse than it is.

00:14:51                               And so in this example, you can tell me if I’m right, my experience has been from knocking on doors is in my head, I’ll make this sales calls going to be way worse than it is. And then when I get up there, it went fantastically. Or maybe they slammed the door in my face and it was, it was over much faster, but it never was as bad. Now that’s has been, you know, 25 years ago, it was never as bad as I thought it was going to be. It’s never, it’s always worse in your head for sure. It always, always is, right? Yeah. So that’s been, you can really psych yourself out. I had a business coach and he used to say, you know, cause people are scared, even pick up the phone [inaudible] and he’d say, well, number one, why are you gonna let somebody that you don’t know you’ll never meet?

00:15:33                               You’ll never even probably see him, eh, dictate what’s going to happen in your business. Yeah. And number two, if you want to get over that fear, call somebody, you know first. Well that’s interesting. Oh, your best friend and just say, Hey, you know anybody that needs to buy yourself a house. Yeah. And so we would do that or go knock on somebody’s somebody’s door that we knew. Right. And just kinda just getting that first one out of the way as kind of a, it gets things rolling for sure. And that’s how it works, right? It’s just you, you need to, your carpet bombing, have your carpet bomb defined. You don’t have to hit the one target that is receptive to you buying and selling houses. There’s no magic formula for finding those clients. Exactly. I mean, weed go on as many for sale by owners as we could get our hands on.

00:16:20                               We’d go knock on their door or get in front of them. You and 10,000 other people, right? Yeah. There’s a lot of people. Well, but luckily most people were afraid of them. So there was there, it was a handful. It wasn’t 10 the most, most agents wouldn’t do it. Okay. And then in the mid nineties, I figured out that in North and Northeast Portland, nobody wanted to go down there. So I’d go down there and I got a lot of listings actually. Really by knocking on doors. Yeah. Uh, I have a Northeast story. I lived, so everybody [inaudible] from listening that’s not familiar with Portland, uh, Northeast in the 90s, which is where I grew up in the 80s. It was just starting to recover a little bit, but it was pretty bad depending on how far a West you went into Northeast Portland. And I had a house that I could have bought a Mick minimums is a big chain of, uh, would you come bars and event, uh, restaurants, bar, restaurant, restaurants, bars, hotels, I dunno.

00:17:19                               Glomerate conglomerate. And they bought out this old school in Northeast Portland on 33rd. Yeah. And I live two doors over in an 800 square foot house, this little tiny house. And they offered me, and I’m 20 years old living. I mean, it was just the hood when I was there. Right. And the 80s right. And they offered me the house for 21 grand and I thought, that’s insane, right. Who’s going to spend 21 grand on this house? And if I’m not mistaken, I think that house sold early two thousands for like 225,000 after mic minimums. They redid a whole elementary school, which was just nothing but a Haven for heroin addicts when I was a kid entity school. The Kennedy school. Yeah. So you know what that looks like now. You didn’t go anywhere near it, right. Uh, when I was, you know, a teenager or my early twenties, so I had that opportunity to buy into that before it took off.

00:18:15                               And then I just can’t believe that same house itself for 200 200 I can’t now, you know, in 2019 but in 2000 I don’t know, maybe four or five. I couldn’t believe that was the case. Well, not far from there. I bought a lot that actually I live in [inaudible]. I built a duplex and I live on one side now, but I paid three 45 for the LA or three 75 for the or a tear down house. When was this? Uh, 2017 wow. Yeah. That and where, whereabouts 23rd and Alberta. Yeah. So again, in the 80s you didn’t go anywhere near 23rd and Albert? No, it was as you know, the, the gangs to the Crips and the bloods in particular still in the 90s to that there was a lot of drive by shootings and, and a just figured out for the most part, if you just stayed in your lane, Hey, I didn’t want to shoot each other.

00:19:08                               Right. They didn’t want to shoot me. Right. And no one else wanted to go down there and do business because of that. I think just by being a little bit crazy and doing that, I was able to pick up some listings now. Yep. Yep. I didn’t make hardly any money cause they were all $21,000. I wasn’t sure that it should’ve been buying them all back then. Really. Right. Hindsight. So you grow, you’re working for your mom? Yeah. Started out as her assistant. Did she have her own, um, [inaudible] do you brokerage, what do you call it? He did, she actually was part owner of a re max brokerage. Okay. Remax had just come into, into the Portland market and so sure. And some other agents own that. She was kind of tired of doing that after our first year or my first year. And so she sold her interest in the company and uh, we went to a workout for a large, uh, independent company in Gresham.

00:20:00                               Oh. The real estate marketing concepts. So does that, uh, is that like a, uh, um, what is it like a McDonald’s is a franchise? Yeah. Is that how they do that? You buy a franchise, so you get all the marketing material and the power of, of hour of re max re max symbol of the balloon and all that. And so really that’s what you’re, you’re buying or does there, is there more benefit to it than just the name and that’s what the shingle is out front. That’s kind of it really in a nutshell. Okay. Yeah. And then they get their piece of whatever deal you’re doing. Exactly right. All right, so you go out to Gresham. Yeah. Yup. And you start with an independent, you and your mom? Me and my mom. Yeah, we went out there, uh, my best. Let’s see, you work with your mom for, for several years.

00:20:47                               Yeah. Yeah. Good for you. He still works at my governor. We worked together, so I recently sold my company, so that’s cool. But uh, so yeah, we were out there. John L. Scott came into town not long after that and they bought out the company with [inaudible]. And so then we were with John L. Scott, who’s a large larger name now. And we were with him for a number of years. And then in our, in the last real estate boom, I worked for a large, a very large developer and a, they wanted to kind of keep everything kind of in house. And so I opened up the real estate RMF, they’re a development company and a 2005 and they went out of business in 2006. So I had a company, my company was all set up, so we went from the name of that company to maybe just rolled it into, and I was already branding my team as the Taylor group.

00:21:38                               So we opened up Taylor group Realty in 2006. Okay. How does somebody go out of business in 2006 in the real estate world, that’s when the market had started to shift and nobody really knew it and uh, they were way over leveraged. So they were the first ones to feel it. Uh, even that early. Yeah. Oh yeah. Wow. So did you see w and really I think 2008 is when everybody, anybody that’s old enough to remember is okay. Probably when it reached it’s worse. Well, you’re saying that, what was it, the December or whatever of 2008 when the whole world crashed Ash. Yeah. But leading up to that, you guys started to feel it in 2006 then, correct? Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Did you have some sense that something was happening or, I mean, going out and starting your own deal? In hindsight, it’s easy to, to look back and say that, but when I was in it, it’s like, Oh, well, no, the market’s shifting a little bit and changing, but it’s not going to crash.

00:22:37                               I mean, I remember having this conversation several times. Yeah, it’s going to slow down, but it’s not going to crash. Right? And, and so now when I hear myself say that in this market gets a little scary. I guess there’s a, the difference between that market in this market. [inaudible] this is a couple years old now, so you can correct me if I’m wrong, but back then there was, uh, a thousand houses to every buyer. I’m making that number up, but some huge number of houses to every buyer. Yes. Today it’s not [inaudible], you know, and for a long time there was a thousand buyers to every house. And I dunno, maybe it’s more one to one now than it is, but we don’t have that huge inventory. Do we, uh, out there that doesn’t have buyers for it? Yeah, you’re exactly right. So it was driven by investors and bad loans and, and lots of inventory developers.

00:23:30                               You know, everybody was a developer and there was hundreds. Yeah. Thousands of houses. So right. [inaudible] the most recent boom, the inventory was so low. There’s bidding Wars on everything. So you’d have 30, 40 offers on some and if you missed out then it was, it was hard to go find the next house back in that boom. He just went [inaudible] next door and there was another house. And so there was a lot more inventory for sure. And what’s it like today then? It’s not quite as bad as it was a couple of years ago as far as the low inventory. I mean we were ran on somewhere between [inaudible] in some markets and like they’re super hot spots, like less than a months of inventory and um, but between a month and two, two months. Yeah. Now it’s [inaudible]. Right. Last data I looked at was 2:00 PM the average in Portland is 2.8 minus the unhealthy markets, like five months or six months, right?

00:24:24                               Yeah. Five months is kind of on the market. So, so we’re still under the, Oh, the market from that perspective. And I know Portland’s a pretty a hot market. We’re on still a hot market, you know, interest rates are low, we have low inventory and you know, there’s still a F and flex with people moving here. Right. This might be a dumb question. Is it harder to uh, to move houses where to find, I’m sorry to find that prospect when it is as good as it is now or as, as it has been because it makes it easier for everybody to find the prospect. Um, or is it harder to find the prospect when the, when it’s five or six months worth of inventory or a year worth of inventory? Harder to find like the two to get a listing or like I said, this probably a stupid question, but to me it seems like the hotter the market, the easier it is for the, the, the, the [inaudible] agent that can’t perform as well to maybe take a listing that you would otherwise get.

00:25:26                               So I’m wondering if that diluted the market when it’s busier. The competition is not quite so fierce. Yeah. When the market’s hot, more aid, more people get into the business or come back into the business for sure. So do you use, you have more competition, did you find that then harder to, um, operating to operate or be as busy as you were saying? Just a normal market when it’s a little bit harder to get that or, you know, I’ve been at at F [inaudible] 27 years now, so I have a, uh, you know, almost all of my businesses referral business and, and so I’m lucky in that sense. But, um, yeah, I mean it’s, it makes it harder for people that are just starting or you know, or that are going out and trying to, you know, door knock and prospect for new business every day.

00:26:11                               And I still do that. I just, I’m calling a lot of past clients and, and asking them for business. Right. Okay. So you, you’re, you’re, the thing takes a shit in 2006. Ah. You’re like, Hey, I’m going to, I’m going to start my own in 2006. Yeah. Yeah. All right. I just charged forward thinking, I had no idea that market’s going to totally crash. I still had lots of business. I just lost that, that they weren’t building any more houses, but we still had to unwind all of their stuff, which a lot of it was going back to banks. And so I started working with banks. I was selling a lot of their lots and stuff to other developers. And so I just still working with developers. There were still a lot of business for me. And I opened up Taylor group Realty opened up 4,000 square feet in the most expensive real estate in Portland and a down in the Pearl district.

00:26:57                               Yeah, right. That 2007, I think because when we opened up shop down there, so. Okay. And you’re the owner? No partners. I was a sole owner of [inaudible] group Realty. Okay. Yeah, we had 40 agents, 40 maybe 58 58. Where’d you find the agents? Um, a lot of them were already with me that worked on the developments with me and stuff. And then, uh, a lot of them just came to us by referral. We didn’t really recruit a ton. Met. We had a beautiful office in the Pearl district. So that kind of recruited on. Yeah, it was, people found out about it and wanted it. I wanted to join us for anybody. Uh, again, outside of Portland, the Pearl district, um, is probably the most expensive a retail real estate in the, the whole Portland. That’s [inaudible]. Yeah. Yeah. I hate it up there myself. Yeah. It’s who lived down there.

00:27:51                               So it was easy for me at the time and it was, it was fun and, and uh, but the parking [inaudible] was in 2006 or seven and she’s grown a lot even since then. A lot of apartments and yeah, the roads are shitty. And buddy, it’s a Tony part of town. So when you say you open 4,000 feet, even in 2007, that wasn’t cheap. No, it was, it was expensive. You were ready to go though? Yeah, yeah. 40 or 50 agents and we had, you know, big developments. We were, we were rolling. Okay. Yeah. And then, and then it all went to shit all day. And how’d you weather that now? You got this huge overhead. Well, let’s back up a second. Did you have any sense of the overhead and kind of what it took to run, uh, the business? I mean, you had some experience.

00:28:37                               Your mom had been a part owner, the owner, from a purely business perspective, you know, running a business, forget about buying and selling houses. Did, having them in, that’s 40, 50 people. I know they’re all contractors, but you got S overhead, you got leases to pay for all of that kind of stuff. Yeah, it made sense at the time. But when the market started shifting and, and, and then fully taken a shit, I had a bunch of agents that weren’t paying. They pay a desk fee basically. And so when I had 40 or 50 panted pay in their desk fee, [inaudible] paid for everything. Um, I also had a lender in there that, yeah, I just had a handshake deal with that was taken a, a good chunk of that, uh, of the office space and then a another builder. And then when, when they started not making any money, they, they were out of there fast as you can imagine.

00:29:27                               Right. And that kinda left me holding the bag a little bit, man. And uh, you know, and then all of a sudden there’s just no income coming in now. Deals aren’t closing. Yeah. Which houses weren’t selling then that there is no incomes. Oh, I had a lot of money in savings and I went quickly. Right. Yeah. So we weathered the storm and we got through that lease and then went and found some, the other landlord worked with me and, and kind of helped me get through it when I didn’t have that monthly cashflow. But we got, yeah, we, we weathered the storm, got through it, and then, uh, just went and got a small space and just kind of contracted as needed. And how at your smallest, how many agents? Probably when I actually just recently sold the company, I think I had 15 agents.

00:30:10                               Okay. Yeah. And you, uh, uh, when that 2008, eight hit, uh, there are no longer paying it. Tell me how the desk fee works. I haven’t heard of this before. So all agents are independent contractors, right. And so they pay, either they’re on a, either they pay a monthly desk fee, let’s say it’s 1000 bucks a month or they can pay [inaudible] mine. They either paid a big check up front, but they got a discount. It was a discount for the whole year or they paid monthly or they paid us split, but there was no cap on the split. So they just paid a split on every, you know, whatever deals they got 30% of every deal that right. [inaudible] and the benefit to them and having that is what? Well w we [inaudible] at the time, you know, we provide office space. Obviously we provided leads and so we, you know, leads that they didn’t have to go track down.

00:31:01                               Okay. I don’t either, which can be pretty lucrative right there if you can get one or two of those closed. And for me at the time when, you know, when we recruited that many, I had 20 subdivisions I was managing. So it was easy to, I was just placing, yeah. One or two agents in each subdivision. So they had business just coming to them. I see. Yeah. They’re essentially buying a book of business, the paying on their desk. Exactly right. And so that was lucrative. We had the nice office was lucrative. I had a managing principle broker so that, you know, oversees everything and, and takes on all the risk. We provided errors and omissions insurance. There is an issue. Yeah. Yup. So how was that when it, when in 2008, it all takes a shit and you’re having to work with the, the land owner and, and, or the landlord and, and, and people are dropping off left and right.

00:31:54                               A M mentally. How was that? Because I know you’re a, you’re a pretty aggressive guy. You’re pretty, uh, um, you know, you’re, uh, uh, don’t like to lose, but man, you were just taking punches left and right. Yeah, it was, uh, I was on defense the whole time, so, and, and it was just [inaudible] every Friday, me and my assistant would sit down and just go through the bills. Like, what do we, what can we pay and what can’t we pay this? You know, and we just [inaudible] every, you know, sometimes twice a week. Right. And we just got to work through that and what, what do we have paying out? You know, it wasn’t like, Oh yeah, the bills are being covered cause everybody’s paying their desk. It was like, okay, what can we pay? You know, we would call all of our in and out and it was happening to everybody.

00:32:42                               So they understood they had to work with work with. Yeah. That, and that’s critical too, is that you call them when you get into trouble, you have to be passive aggressive with it. Again, back to that passive aggressiveness because that’s another problem that I see is that people don’t reach out and communicate because again, in their head, I think they, you work it up, do this so much. You work it up. So it’s going to be way worse than it is. But like you said, everybody was in. Yeah. Everybody, we didn’t [inaudible] no, no, it’s, I dunno how it doesn’t see me moving. Um, where was I? What was I saying? I just remember that communication. Yeah. Yeah. That as long as you communicate with those guys, uh, the, the, the, the what the bill, you know, whoever you owe the bill to that you can, um, it’s never as bad as you think it is.

00:33:34                               Right, right. [inaudible] and like you said, everybody else is working with them or they’re getting the same phone calls from so many other people. Yeah. In 2004, uh, I told the story a couple of weeks ago, um, do tried to, I had a partner and he tried to take us down and so he, he, he was kind of served as our controller. So he had, he had, he was in charge of all of the money coming in and going out. Yeah. I don’t know if you know this story. Tom Stearns have ever told you the story of this guy. So he tried to fuck me. We go back to, he started working for me in the mid nineties and he was older than me. So in the early, when we started this deal in the late nineties, early two thousands, he was probably in his 50s. Um, so you know he’s in his seventies now, but in 2004 he and he was under a lot of pressure cause you know the company grew so damn fast.

00:34:27                               Yeah, he was having [inaudible] he had a problem, not saying I don’t know how to do something and the company grew away past him and he didn’t know how to handle it. So rather than look for help, he felt all the pressure that I was putting on him and the company was putting on him. And so he decides to flip over to my competitor now he did two things. He let the AR, the accounts receivable run up. So he didn’t collect money [inaudible] delayed billing. Right. And sent it out way later than he should have. And then he didn’t pay the payables. So the bills that you’re talking about, he didn’t pay payroll. Yeah. Buried his head. Well he knew what he was doing that on purpose cause he’s trying to leave me in alert. He then goes to my biggest competitor, which was a company about half my size.

00:35:11                               Ah, and I get a call the next day and then, and quits, right. I quit and he leaves. It’s like, wow, I worked with this guy for a decade, but okay, I get it. It’d go do whatever you want while he goes to the competitor. I get a call. Uh, two days later, I’m sitting in front of the bank, interestingly enough, and I get a call two days later from the owner of that company. And he says, I understand you’re having problems. We want to buy you. And I said, w what it, what are you talking about? I’m having problems. He says, well, I understand from Tom that you’re having some issues and you might be open to talking about being bought. I said, yeah, motherfucker, eh, number one, never call me again. Yeah. And number two, I’m not for sale anyway. And I remember driving back to the office and literally, well, I mean, that’s when we really caught it.

00:35:58                               And I remember we had one point $6 million in receivables. Um, we only had about, Oh, I think it was six or $700,000 worth of payables, but still for us, that was like twice as many as we should have had. Right. Right. And so the key was, and I brought people in from all over, I brought my family in, I brought anybody I could find in and put them behind a phones. And all we did was call all of the, I had them call all of the receivables, right? If you owed me 25 bucks, you were getting a phone call. We’re like, well shit, we, you know, send us the bill or we never got it or whatever, you know, cause the bill was in the trash. And so that was kind of the easy side. The more difficult side then was all of these payables hadn’t been paid.

00:36:40                               And we’re like 60 days behind, 70 days behind. And the, the, the critical thing for that is we had one person who was in charge of the money, knew exactly how much she had [inaudible] was in charge of calling the people. So she, I could tell them exactly what they were going to get. And the key was if you owe them 1000 bucks and you can only pay a hundred, tell them what you can pay and send it to that. Yeah. And don’t tell him I’m going to pay you 500 to send them a hundred or don’t send anything. You’d say, I got 50 bucks against that thousand, I’m going to send you 50 bucks on Tuesday and I’ll send you another 50 bucks, you know, two Tuesdays later. Yup. And that’s the way that we navigated ourselves out of that thing. And I think that’s an important lesson for anybody, even in when times are flushed, but it’s just cause it’s flush doesn’t mean that there’s cash necessarily all of the time, but you just communicate that with the people that you, you know, your bankers or your, or your, uh, the people you owe money to let them know you’re gonna pay it, let them know you’re going to pay something.

00:37:39                               Yeah. Right. Which is what you were doing. Right. That’s what we did. We just sat down and said, just like, wait, you said, okay, here’s how much we have, here’s all the bills so we can give a little, a little bit over here, a little bit over there. And then we’d call him and let him know, yeah, here’s what’s coming. I think there’s a, uh, um, a belief that that is somehow, um, that the people aren’t going to be receptive to that. And that’s never been the case. Uh, I remember, I remember sitting around my right after I started my company back in the late nineties, sitting around my table, I didn’t have any money for bills, period. There was no money. And I remember paying $25 on the electric bill just to get them to not turn the heat off. I had a brand new son, right?

00:38:17                               I’ve started a business, I can eat it. And I had zero cash and the bill was like 225 bucks. And I remember they said, the lady said to me, and this is where I learned that lesson, just send me something so I can make it look like it’s active on the account. You’re communicating, just send me something. Right. I think that’s a critical lesson for absolutely. Well, I guess for [inaudible] personally and for, for business. Yeah. Okay. So you go through 2008 things are ugly. You survive it, you move out. Okay. You downsized significantly. Big hit to your ego. Yeah, definitely tough to do, isn’t it? Tough to do, but you know, I was just in the fight so hard, I never really thought about it. [inaudible] dwell on that. Yes. Yeah, yeah. It’s a hit, but it, that never just dwelled on it. And, and, and I just kept fighting.

00:39:02                               It’s one of those things you used to have to deal with what, where you are. They can’t yeah. As I, sorry. No one else to do. So I’m going to keep doing real estate and, and I was able to, you know, I shifted and I started working with banks and then it was short sales and side. I quickly realized that’s where the, that’s the only business happening right now. So, yeah. Started doing that. And so there was always cashflow just wasn’t [inaudible] pay the overhead I had built up, so. Right. But it was able to, you know, like you said, just give a little bit to every, you know, and I worked through it. So [inaudible] survive and survive. Yup. And how long that go, how long was your lease for? You signed in 2007 you said? No, we signed, yeah, I think it was a three year lease.

00:39:46                               I think we [inaudible] 2010 as we were done with that lease. Okay. So just the worst time to sign a lease possible. [inaudible] town is brutal, right? Yeah. Yeah. You get through that 2010, you downsize now by 10 or 11, the market’s starting to, uh, come back a little bit, isn’t it? Does it maybe [inaudible] yeah. 2010 is about when it started to come back a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. And so feel stuff started kinda Esalen and, and [inaudible] recovery and a little bit. So in film stuff. Tell us what that is. Well, it’s in Portland, you know, stuff that’s in the, in the trendy neighborhoods now. So, you know, Alberta neighborhood, Mississippi, right? A Hawthorne, Belmont close in, downtown, close in downtown. Right. And that continues to be pretty, pretty hot right here in Portland, right? Yup. So, uh, 11, 12, 13, 14, til we come to today.

00:40:39                               Or were you sold recently? How did you, same sort of thing. Just you decided this time to stay small or were you planning on, you know, did you, you’re like, well fuck that 50 agent program even though the market’s back, I’m happy with 15. Yeah, I think I was pretty happy. I the times where it get excited, like, Oh, maybe I’ll build it back up, but I just never, I just kind of that I realized that keep it stay in small was where I wanted to be. And then I, and, and the reason I sold, I realized that what I really enjoy doing is helping buyers and sellers and just, you know, I didn’t want to manage, uh, uh, a bunch of brokers and they were all great to work with. I had, eh, a great group of people. They were all very easy, but it’s just, you know, even though it was only 15, it’s just a lot of little things.

00:41:27                               And when my focus wanted to be on working with, yeah. Great clients like Billy and, and you, and, and, and staying on that focus. What’s that? Individuals. Individuals. Yeah. And so that’s, that’s what I enjoy doing. And so I was able to sell my company. I didn’t sell it for a ton of money. I, you know, I just basically got out of it and, and, uh, and I’m not retiring, so I’m not like I sold a tech company or anything like that. Yeah. I always have to clarify that people are like, Oh yeah, he’s sold your company. Right? Yeah. All of a sudden. Yeah. It’s not like that because you never knew about. Right. Right. I did not sell Facebook or anything like that. Ah, not retiring on it, but, uh, yeah. And it’s, you know, I’m still unwinding some of the things from Taylor group that just happened a few months ago and, and so, but it’s, it’s really, that enabled me to focus on clients and, and you know, and I’m not just saying this, but working with Billy, like, and every, you know, I had just sold the company and it kind of gave me this renewed, like we found him in an amazing house and he was great to work with and, and uh, it kind of gave me a renewed energy in the real estate business.

00:42:38                               Yeah. You and I talked about that and Billy knows this too. Uh, that for me helping him, cause we’ve documented his, the journey from way back in last year. Yeah. The lawyer stuck cause you were provided us the referrals to the guys over in Washington. Yeah. Uh, and so go walking through that process with him a F and seeing how worried he was and how frustrated he was and all of the different emotions that you go through. Um, what’s fun because you lose that. I don’t, you know, at least for me, if I want to buy something, I just call you and [inaudible] negotiate the deal. And you know, that’s kind of how it works on a house basis. Um, working through it the way that we did with him. How’s that go? Yeah. I remember how nervous you can be buying your first house and you know, at how the smallest things can seem like they’re so big.

00:43:31                               And then I was trying not to laugh at him about the different things he’d be so nervous about because I was remembering, Oh yeah, that’s shit that people worry about when they, my house. And I kept encouraging him because unemotional as you can. [inaudible] has Le little emotion. You hit it earlier that people are so emotional about this. Do you think from your perspective that that’s healthy? Uh, or not because I, my approaches. Okay. Don’t fall in love with something. Don’t be emotional about it. The Wright house will show up for you. You may have to look at 10 of them, but if you fall in love with the first one, you’re just fucking making life harder for yourself than it is to make it harder for sure. But, uh, you know, it’s, it’s a, it’s a huge that purchase. Yeah. Yeah. It’s a huge transaction.

00:44:18                               It’s usually the biggest transaction most people make in their lifetime. Right. And, uh, so I get it. Yeah. And that’s where they’re going to live and raise a family and, you know, and, or if they’re selling, they’ve raised a family there, a lot of cases. So what is makes life really difficult is when the agents are overly emotional, which happens quite often. So, Oh yeah. Oh, I wouldn’t have thought about that. Yeah. Really. How would the agents get emotional? Well, because they’ve, yeah, just that cycle I just told you, they, they’ve, they’re doing their first deal or their only deal for the year. And so they’ve got bills to pay and, and uh, and then it starts going a little sideways and they just go haywire. Right, right. And so, which is, you know, it’s not easy. It’s a hard business. I bet it really to best serve your client, you really need to be able to Hey, as unemotional as possible, but still understand your clients emotion.

00:45:11                               Right? I think your best, you best serve your client by being unemotional. Right. I think that’s, that’s [inaudible] that should be your job. Um, that’s interesting. I would not have, I thought about that, but when you got dinner on the line, I suppose you could, I have a real vested interest. Exactly. I call it, we call it commission breath. Sometimes keep adjusted. They want that commission so mad you can just smell it out of there. Right. You know, that’s like [inaudible] not a good luck. Yeah. And you, uh, um, which you said something there. It’s hard. And I think that there’s a perception, uh, about real estate in general that it’s easy and it’s been my experience. There is nothing easy about any kind of real estate short of, of as a buyer. Okay. Uh, or even a seller. That’s probably the easiest part of the business from my perspective.

00:46:02                               Um, but if somebody is thinking about being a broker, that ain’t an easy job. It’s not easy at all. No. It’s hard. It’s a lot of hours and a lot of time, a lot of hours, a lot of time. And there’s just a lot of moving parts. And like I said earlier, earlier, it’s just there’s a lot of different personalities and emotions to deal with. Yeah. And it doesn’t end when the transaction’s closed, at least for me. And yeah, I think that’s how I’ve, and Billy does this where we’re tracking down some gutters that didn’t happen. Right? It’s right. Yeah. And we’re gonna we’re going to get them in and get that handled. But that’s, that’s for me, it’s important to make sure that stuff of all the followup happened as well. And that is the, it’s so tough to think about a transitioning your brain from being an hourly employee are getting paid by the hour and all of a sudden you don’t get paid until you have produced something.

00:46:51                               Know an employee gets paid regardless if the building burns down. Right. But whereas in the real estate business and as a contractor, you only get paid and that payment is so many months away that that can really fuck with you too. Absolutely. And it’s, it’s challenging for sure. Yeah. Without a doubt. Especially if you’re just, if you don’t have other deals, it’s just [inaudible]. It’s hard. It’s hard not to have that commission breath when you’re like dependent of the work that you’re putting into it as well. I mean, you can do everything right and the making contact with everybody in doing your job to the best of your ability. Yeah. Any other party of the whole transaction can fall through and now you don’t get paid. Yeah. Think about how that would be that. Yeah, we’ve seen, we’ve all seen deals fall apart at the last second after you’ve done all of the work on them and you get nothing.

00:47:38                               Yes, absolutely brutal. Yeah, that’s brutal. Those are hard. Those are hard, but that’s, that’s what you got. I mean, if you, you can, you, you’re able to withstand that. I think hand in hand with what it takes to even find the deal in the first place. Yeah. Right. Meaning that it toughens the business toughens you up if you’re going to be into it a longterm, you have to have thick skin for sure. Yeah. And I think the other thing that I appreciate about having you on to talk about this is because I’m addicted to, yeah. I hate even admitting this. I love the million dollar listing shows. I’m so brutal and all I do is yell at the television, right. Because I know what reality is and what they’re selling, what reality is, you know, reality TV and there’s nothing realistic about it. Not at all.

00:48:26                               I’m like, I’m always telling him, Billy’s fucking hard job. That job sucks. You know, they make it look so pretty and everybody’s dressed to the nines. And I was like, man, that’s just fighting it out down in the sewers. That job. Yeah. So I appreciate you coming on to substantiate what I’m saying, because I think the public only sees those kinds of shows. Right? That’s what they, if they don’t know somebody in real estate, they see those shows and those shows. Joe, something completely different. Absolutely. And I flipped a few houses here and there too. And so that’s not nearly as glamorous as the, you know, uh, [inaudible] in Vegas or whatever, whatever the shows that are out there. I don’t even really watch him. I’ve, I’ve seen him a little bit of it. Yeah. I watched a few episodes of million dollar listing and myself here and there, but [inaudible] not reality by any means.

00:49:13                               I hammer on the flipping shows, I hammer on two things, the flipping shows and the flipper, a seminars. So I’m on Instagram. I go on there and I hammer on it on this podcast. I hammer them. [inaudible] uh, and I’m so glad to hear you say that because everybody’s heard me say this forever. And bill has heard me say it 5,000 times, but you know, it’s like [inaudible] those guys say again, all the seminars coming into town and they’re gonna teach you how to flip houses. And I go, think about that. Yeah, 500 people go to that. Now all of a sudden, and you’re the master flipper, why would you want 500 new competitors? Right. For a dwindling a number of houses, particularly in the market today, it just, it does [inaudible] if what you’re selling is really as good as what you’re saying it is, theoretically you’re out 500 houses.

00:50:02                               No, just to use a number. Right. Um, and so it’s clearly just a, a, a grab and selling a package. My friend just went to one and he’s early experience agent and flipper and he got sucked into, Oh, he’s like, Oh, this is gonna take us to the next level. It’s only 25 grand. Oh yeah, totally. Sounds like a bargain. Holy shit. Yeah. See I’m talking about the, but they do, they’ll bring in, I tell anytime it’s free. You’re fucked. Oh yeah, yeah. Free seminar. Right. Because they’re going to get you in there. I saw, I went to one years and years ago for a, a stock trading and I watched the two people next to me, one on Saturday and Sunday and I did everything I could to get the two people, young couple not to use the equity in their house. This is 2001 too.

00:50:54                               Not to use the equity in their house to buy this program, but the way they had it sell, sold to them so well. These marketers market it so well that it sounds like it’s going to take me to the next level. It’s a whole new program now. Yeah. Yeah. All designed to sell you something. And I talked to one of those guys, this was back when the market crashed and he was selling short sale, teaching everybody how to do short sales. Yes. And I talked to him afterwards and he, he knew his number. He goes, yeah, if I get, yeah, a hundred people here for free. I know. And he, and I forget the numbers, but he knew exactly his numbers. He goes, I know exactly how many I’m going to sell. Right. He just knew, you know, he knew his numbers and, and yeah, so that, well, let’s get in there for free.

00:51:37                               And they sell 25 people at $25,000 package. They’re doing pretty good. Jesus Christ. Yeah. It’s like the guy, um, uh, there’s guys online that will create books that talk about success. Maybe their real estate success. That’s the one I see the most. Yeah. Uh, and the book, then you go read the comments and the book has 97 pages in it. It’s half of the pages or pictures. The guy writes it up himself and he sells it for $4 and 95 cents and you can’t get it in hardback. Right. And only ordered download and down download it. And it’s a PDF essentially. Right, right. But think about it, and I said this to Billy at five bucks a piece, $4 and 95 cents a piece. I mean, how long does it take to write something like that? Right. And it’s misspelling and all of that. But you put out an ad and they had maybe cost you two or three grand and you sell $25,000 worth on the internet.

00:52:29                               Barely easily because the headline is easy. Simple. Yeah. And how to be successful, how can we, four 99 and it’s only four 99 so people are like, well fuck, it’s the cost of a latte. Altro five bucks at that. Yeah. Pretty soon you’ve got 5,000 people that threw five bucks at you. Exactly. Yeah. And it’s a, it’s, it’s the same sort of scam. So I’m happy to say to hear you say that because, uh, as I’ve told many people on this podcast, flipping houses sucks. It is hard work. It’s hard work. And then nobody shows you the ones where you lose money on them. So yeah, right. That’s true. And then they make it with editing, they make it look so, so quick and easy. Yeah. Yeah. Hyper easy. All you have to do is go identify the house and then their little spreadsheet that they give you plug in the numbers.

00:53:13                               And anytime I see those people, I know they’re fresh out of the seminar. Right. And I usually just go, they’re never going to meet. They’re not going to make it and never gonna make it. Well, one, they’re never going to put a deal together cause they’re gonna sit trying to analyze it on their spreadsheet for too long. Right. And if they do, they’re probably, you know, then their costs are going to be through the roof. Wait way higher than that. Yeah. They always are. Correct. Even for [inaudible] seasoned professional, they’re always higher. Yeah. Yeah. There’s just no way around that. So imagine you don’t know what you’re doing. Yeah, yeah. You’re screwed. You’re, you’re just so what do you do? So now you sold and so you’re working for a hundred I saw the name on your email. It’s a company called the broker network. Okay.

00:53:52                               Yup. And so you’re by you now you’re the retina desker yeah, exactly. And, and just then going off of referrals. Yeah, yeah, yep. And any new business you’re looking for, you go out and just kind of call old clients and that sort of thing. [inaudible] stay in touch with old clients, just [inaudible] regular emails, texts, calls, just check in. Right. And uh, you know, and I’ve been doing it long enough, a lot of times they’ll just call me. So, so somebody looking to either be a broker or, or, or, or get into real estate and they come to John who’s got 27 years of experience, what are you telling them? Don’t do it. Don’t do it. No. Yeah. Straight up. Well that’s cool. Yeah. I mean, unless you have that, that same, you know, if it’s how you need to make your living then, then I mean it, it can go two ways.

00:54:42                               Yeah. One of two ways. Either they fail, if they have, they have to have the money, they have to pay their bills, and they just go through that cycle and they don’t, or there’s people that just, they have to have that money and they go out and get it. They go out and door knock, like, uh, maniac. Right. Until that business comes in. Yeah. And so it can drive people both ways if they don’t have the savings. But a year’s worth of savings is [inaudible] critical eye and the gear towards the saving, there’s no guarantee there’s going to be something on the other side. No, you can go a year burn through that and burned down that and be done. The turnover rates gotta be massive. Yeah. I don’t know the exact numbers, but it’s is, it’s gotta be huge. Yeah. Right. Because yeah, I think it is a self-starting business.

00:55:26                               There’s no boss there screaming down your throat. Nobody’s making you do it. And you know, and there’s a lot of teams now, so there’s P, you know, and I have a small team and that, and so if you, if you were gonna do it, I would say get onto it. Some, a successful team that’s already generating a bunch of leads and, and uh, yeah, so you have some leads coming in right out of the gate. Right. Okay. So that back, that certainly helps. And it’s not really a job that you can start up while working somewhere else. Right. Is, it takes up so much of your time. It makes it tough to do it part time. Yeah. Really it’s, it’s super hard. And then on top of that, it’s shitty hours and you’re working at night and open houses and fucking weekends and all the rest of that stuff.

00:56:08                               Be willing to do that to you. Yes. You’ve got to put in, particularly in the early time, early days. Yeah. And that’s all you’re going to be doing, I’m assuming. Yeah. I mean if, if, if I, that’s what I did. I did it every weekend and now people are doing them during the week and stuff. I’d probably do it even more, even more open than I did in the past. Right. One of my mentors, he’s like, you might as well do an open house cause you’re sitting at home on your couch doing a non open house anyway. So get off your ass, put a sign out front and do an open house. I fucking work. Right. Right. To work, go to work, go to fucking work, go to fucking work. So what do you do, uh, away from at work? What do you do when you’re not working?

00:56:46                               Well, everybody in there, people ask me these days, what do you do? What do you do? I say it’s the three JS. It’s my job, which is real estate, my son jet. Yup. And jujitsu. Yeah. That’s what I do say. Your days kind of end to the [inaudible] MMA when that start. I’ve been in martial arts, eh, I started martial arts in college. Uh, yeah, TaeKwonDo. I grew up around boxing. So striking and then, uh, restarted muy Thai kickboxing and uh, probably 2010, I think. Okay. 2009 10. And then, uh, there they did grappling there too. And so then I started, yeah. Yeah. I of, I was interested in jujitsu and some grappling, but it’s a little intimidating if you haven’t, dude wrestled or dent. Yeah. Den grappling, especially at 40 years old. Yeah. Right. And so I just, I’ll give it a try and just fell in love with it.

00:57:38                               Yes, absolutely. Love jujitsu again. Uh, you’re getting 10 no’s on the real estate side. You’re getting 10 pins before you figure out how to stop that move from going. Right. It’s, it’s inherently how you learn is by loser. He learned by losing. Yes. Right. [inaudible] over and over. I’m still learning, right? Yeah. That’s intense. Yeah. Yeah. That’s cool. Uh, jujitsu, um, I never even heard of sec. I mean, so again, I grew up in the late seventies, in the 80s. I was born in 69 and so when I was a kid, we fought all the time, but it was the classic kind of fist fighting. Right. You did. There was no jujitsu or any of this stuff. Like today, you never know who you’re going to mess with out how comfortable they are fighting. Yeah. But when I was a kid, it was whoever, you know, you just, who could take the most punches, kind of survive the fight. [inaudible]

00:58:30                               uh, then I remember, and I don’t know, it must be 20 years, 25 years ago when the first hoists Gracie fight came out, you know, that first 93 and 93, UFC won and we watched that thing and everybody was just punching each other in the balls and it was just a blood fast as a street fight. She was a street fight and then dude in a G walks out and he is the least intimidating person of the whole group. Billy, if you, but if you go see the old videos, these guys are [inaudible] each one of them just to a monster [inaudible] not just in size, but in look and kind of how they acted and [inaudible]. You think a fighter in a fire like, yeah, WWF style. You’re correct. Ws back 75 yup. Porky Wars G. so he looked even Finner. Yes. They didn’t look dead. Not intimidating at all.

00:59:18                               So having no idea of what this was, what I was watching, I remember me and my buddies rented it and we were watching it and we’re like, that dude’s a human Python. Yeah. That, that was how we interpreted the way that he fought because everybody else is got this one way of doing it and then just no matter how many swings they took at him, pretty soon he just kind of, it was on them and then had their arm locked out or their leg locked out and it’s like the dude just [inaudible] coiled around everybody. Now it’s common. We all seen it 100,000 times, right? I mean it’s, it’s ubiquitous. But I remember when Gracie came on back in the day, uh, I was like, nothing I had ever seen. Nobody knew what it was. Yeah. A ticket by storm and yeah. And now it’s again, it’s everywhere. That’s amazing. Cool man. I appreciate you coming on dude. Thanks for having me. [inaudible] exactly what we wanted to hear was a,

01:00:09                               okay, I’ve got a question before you. Yeah, I see it all the time. So Google automatically attracts everything. I look at it anyways and then they feed me more articles. Right. Every day you see something about like another crash and not just in housing and real estate, but in the stock market and the whole economical thing crashing or coming down. Do you see any signs of that from where you sit?

01:00:30                               You worry about it. And again, I, I go back to what I was saying back in the last crash. It’s like, Oh, it’s going to slow down. It’s not going to crash though. Just hearing myself say that like brings back those feelings of when it did crash and, and remembering that [inaudible] I think it’s different now with the [inaudible] our market. I think it’s, it’s already showing signs of slowing down and we’re coming into more of a normal market. So, which I think is healthy or, um, any market, it’s hard to, yeah. We had several years with all the multiple offers and, and prices going crazy. It can’t sustain that, so, yeah. But our market’s driven by people that actually have to qualify for their house. As you know, you went through the process and it’s not easy. You have to jump through a lot of hoops. Back before the last crash, you didn’t have to jump through any hoops. You just said they, they call them Ninja loans, no income, no job and no assets and, yep. Tell him what you want.

01:01:24                               Yeah.

01:01:25                               And so you had people that were no income verification, no. Not verification and nothing. Yeah. You just basically told them what you want. Yeah. And, uh, they, they in the lenders would get it for you for the most part, you know. Right. You didn’t really have to qualify so that the market was driven by a lot of speculation, you know, and they were reverse interest mortgages. So there, you know, when that, when that came up, when that, when that changed and they started having to make payments, real payments, all of a sudden you can’t afford the $700,000 house. And I forgot about reverse interest mortgages. That’s right. And then the market, so that, so all of a sudden they had bigger payments than they need than they expected. And, and they expected to either be able to refinance it or sell it for more money. And when that started going away in the market, like all of a sudden they couldn’t sell it for more money or what they owed on it cause they put nothing down as well.

01:02:17                               Mm. Mmm.

01:02:18                               And that, that caused a lot of problems. All of a sudden people started giving houses back and just, you know, it all unraveled from there. [inaudible] you know, people have to have a job, they have to qualify. Um, and there’s very little inventory out there in our market. Portland market’s driven by a lot of, uh, influx of people coming in from other States as well on it. It wasn’t back then. Yeah. Yeah. It as much the fundamentals underneath the market, uh, there’s always corrections. And again, we talked about this the other day. Bill, he’s not old enough to remember 2008 really, you know, he’s just a kid. Uh, so there’s a whole generation of kids who have not seen it from 2008 to 2019. They’ve just known 10 years of what’s the longest, uh, I believe it’s the longest economic, uh, um, growth, growth and American history.

01:03:09                               Yeah. So that’s, you know, 10 solid years as a whole decade. So, but the fundamentals under the market [inaudible] not anywhere near what they were as John just described. Um, so that’s probably going to correct, but the CREC might be back to six months, five or six months of inventory, um, is, uh, probably better chance than for a couple of years. Yeah. It depends, you know, if the, I think the rates are gonna stay low. That’s what all indications are. So the rates are still low. Um, yeah. Barring some sort of, ah, disaster. I don’t think, right. The market’s going to crash. Yeah. It’s definitely leveled off. I mean, things are, yeah, it was, things were selling in [inaudible] multiple offers and in less than a week, almost everything. And it was crazy for awhile. Right. 2016 and 17 and then it’s just kind of slowly, inventory is creeped up a little bit, not a ton.

01:04:00                               Um, and eh, but things are taking longer to sell. Yeah. Mm. I think the average is 52 days on the market. So still less than than two months. Right? Yeah. Still not a lot. Dude. I love, the part I love most about your story is just how shy you were coming out of high school or in college, really. Shack and your mom tosses you in the middle of it. There’s so many. There’s, there’s such a good lesson for anybody listening to, uh, to take from that. Cause it’s just not easy, man. In the end, it’s even harder when you’re shy and mom’s like, get out. I gotta go. And then you get the door slammed on you. Right. That’s probably one of the best things ever happened to you. Yeah. If from [inaudible] in terms of your career though. Yeah. You know, so rather than it being a negative, it’s a positive.

01:04:43                               You just don’t feel like a positive when the doors slammed on your foot. Yeah. You got to go through a lot of pain first to get there. Yeah. Cool man. Thanks for coming in. How do people get ahold of you? Ah, yeah, so Instagram is a Portland real estate experts at Portland real estate experts. Uh, Taylor group Realty on Facebook right now. That’ll be changing probably tip Portland real estate experts. It’s tailored group Realty on Facebook, so that’s social media. John at Taylor group Realty email and nine seven one four zero nine seven six is myself on. I’m available anytime. Boom. We will, uh, and you can go to our YouTube page and will are our website jury. You can see previous guests and there we’ll keep an updated list of all of your contact info as well. There we go. Finally share. Yeah, absolutely. You guys. Thanks for having me.

01:05:35                               This was fun, man. Coming on. That wraps up this episode. Thanks everybody for tuning in. I have to read this. I’ve only read it 150 times, John and I can’t remember. I got so used to read that I can’t memorize and be sure to check us out on YouTube and Instagram, Facebook, iTunes, Google, Reddit, Jerry Brazy on all of them. Don’t forget about Spotify. Send us your questions to remember, people like you just heard it, and I say this every single time, particularly when we have guests in. Opportunities are everywhere, but you got to go get them peace, peace out.


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